Politically, are you left or right wing?

[Iggle Piggle]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

It's rare that you have direct comparison but with covid it is as plain as day to see how shit we've been.

New Zealand, Singapore and South Korea reacted well. In Europe, Germany and Portugal likewise. Quite how anyone can look at our spiralling deaths rates, broken track and trace, Cheltenham Festival in the middle of European lockdown, advisors driving to a castle to test their sight and having a weekly riot to tune into and think 'The government are doing a bang up job' is beyond me.The furlough scheme is the only one i'd give them credit on.

Boris is- in my view - the worst PM in my lifetime. Zero work ethic, leadership skills, empathy and a single issue PM. His only real concern seems to be where his tackle is going next.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

If not the Government, who do we blame for the Government's response to the pandemic?

Where there's blame there's a claim
Regards
DF

 

[hans kraay fan club]

It's rare that you have direct comparison but with covid it is as plain as day to see how shit we've been.

New Zealand, Singapore and South Korea reacted well. In Europe, Germany and Portugal likewise. Quite how anyone can look at our spiralling deaths rates, broken track and trace, Cheltenham Festival in the middle of European lockdown, advisors driving to a castle to test their sight and having a weekly riot to tune into and think 'The government are doing a bang up job' is beyond me.The furlough scheme is the only one i'd give them credit on.

Boris is- in my view - the worst PM in my lifetime. Zero work ethic, leadership skills, empathy and a single issue PM. His only real concern seems to be where his tackle is going next.

Admirable

 

[cunning fergus]

understand your thinking, trouble with the conclusion is the terms have diverged from the historical context. left/right is about broad socio-economic views, nothing about being moderate or radical, we have those two really good words to use for that.

Appreciate that view, not going to violently dispute either. As I said though people/society today is more nuanced than ever before, if we now are to believe there are over 100 genders, then there are certainly as many political reference points.

Whilst there has to be some way to filter and collate those reference points to establish a broad coalition of those reference points to serve a binary electoral system, left and right feels intuitively to simplistic.

The orthodoxy of left and right needs reform, there are socialist capitalists, and vice versa, simplistic political definitions just push us down hypocritical cul de sacs which then typically distract from political points breeding made. If anywhere should understand that point it’s this board (myself included).

 

[Machiavelli]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

Yes, but what about ...

 

[zefarelly]

Regardless of political persuasion, a country littered with ill educated idiots needs strong focused leadership.

As opposed to being led by an over educated weak lazy idiot

 

[R. Slicker]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

I can't disagree with any of the above.
I've never been particularly interested in politics but I struggle to see how this government still has any support.
Ok, Brexit won the referendum, but the campaign was obviously based on blatant lies.
They made Johnson PM, who is no leader.
Then they got rid of decent ministers who wouldn't support Brexit so we end up with the current shitshow of sycophants as a 'cabinet'.
On his 1st announcement on Covid, when he stood up with Witty etc. and announced Herd immunity, did people not immediately think that is madness? I know I did.
And the rest is history.
Also, anyone that still uses the term Remoaner or Leftwaffe can **** off.
I'm probably just left of centre.


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[BBassic]

Leftwaffe?!

As a left of centre loony I've got to say that's f**king brilliant.

 

[Lethargic]

I would like to belief that I am an intelligent and fair thinking individual with a balanced view of the world so I am really struggling to pigeon hole myself with the poll. My first instincts are to myself and family (some may say selfish but int is human instinct to protect those closest first), that said where ever possible I do try to think of the wide community and try to exercise a social responsibility.

In modern society there are too many people who feel safest pigeon holing other,a great example being if you voted Brexit you must be right wing, it is not that simple and this is part of the problem of today's modern politics.

The political system of this country does not really help as you basically have Conservatives and Labour as the only options for government with the media enforcing the conservatives right wing and Labour let wing ideology. I am completely disillusioned with all political parties and doubtful I could bring myself to vote for any mainstream party at the next election but that does really help as it not constructive for national progression, we are desperate for a political revolution in this country.

One thing that you have to congratulate Boris on, is he has managed to make a bigger balls up of this than anyone could have predicted and has demonstrated a level of incompetents that is unprecedented (yes I can use the most over used word in recent times). Sad times indeed.

 

[dsr-burnley]

On his 1st announcement on Covid, when he stood up with Witty etc. and announced Herd immunity, did people not immediately think that is madness? I know I did.

One of the problems with Twitter and so on is that its lack of truth induces false memories. Boris Johnson did not announce "herd immunity" at that or any other press conference, and if you think you heard him do it, you're wrong. The reference to immunity was to say that lack of immunity makes the disease more dangerous.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/uk-moves-to-delay-phase-of-coronavirus-plan

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Work is only a part of one’s life experiences though. A significant part, but just one part none the less. You seem to be completely dismissing all other aspects of what contributes to ones political make up.

I am not dismissing other parts of life, as I have done others things rather than just work!

My main point on political make up would be the left seem to consist of mainly young gullible people, who have been brainwashed by their parents, grand parents or school teachers, the rest tend to be older people who are bitter about their wealth.

The right don't seem to be influenced in this way, they just use experience to understand what is best politically.

This is not meant to be offensive to anyone, just my observation.

You have gathered up the whole jigsaw? You really are an enlightened being aren't you

I hope the above will enlighten you some more.

 

[BadFish]

It is interesting to read so many people discussing their reasons for voting the way they do.

Sounds like I am doing it wrong but I now live in a country that has had changes of 'side' over the years. The reality for me is that very little changes for me on a day to day basis. I assume that this is just where I am in my life, with reasonable security if not cash and investment. I sit in the middle of rich and poor and from my vantage point I would like to see wealth more equitably spread throughout society, I would also like to see those that work the hardest and contribute most to society being rewarded more fully. This seems to be agreed upon throughout the thread. I think the only difference is how we define who works hardest and contributes most. My assumption is that there are a whole raft of people who are also going to be okay in spite of who is in charge. So I cast my vote based on who I think will help those most in need of help or based on who will support things that i find important, e.g. Climate Change.

I find it interesting to hear people being so sure that a left sided government in the UK would be a disaster when you haven't seen one since the late 1970's (I am not counting Blair's centre/centre right 90's government). I suppose this outlook will only become more entrenched as time goes on. Only time will tell though.

 

[Audax]

This poll fails. What about those of us who are right-of-centre economically, but left-of-centre socially?

 

[Lenny Rider]

- ignored the findings of Operation Cygnus
- disbanded the parliamentary pandemic response group
- ignored the warnings from Italy and Spain
- sat on his hands for two weeks too long, until forced into partial lockdown
- chased catastrophic herd immunity theory, then lied about it
- rejected sources of PPE from the EU and universities, then lied about the reasons
- issued conflicting, or deliberately ambiguous advice, to the public, and business
- missed targets for testing, then lied about it
- lost further public faith through refusal to admit wrongdoing in shameless actions of his advisor
- recalled Parliament physically, from working remote system - disenfranchising large parts of the electorate
- all resulting in tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths - amongst the very worst outcome of the entire world, despite the natural advantages of being an island, a well developed economy and health system, and weeks of warning.

“An admirable job”?

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you are taking the piss.

To be fair HKFC, I'm not taking the piss, BJ has had the hardest job of any PM since Churchill took on Adolf, he's clearly not perfect and he's made mistakes, as did Thatcher, Blair etc.....,but who could you offer up that could have done a better job in these unprecedented times?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I am not dismissing other parts of life, as I have done others things rather than just work!

My main point on political make up would be the left seem to consist of mainly young gullible people, who have been brainwashed by their parents, grand parents or school teachers, the rest tend to be older people who are bitter about their wealth.

The right don't seem to be influenced in this way, they just use experience to understand what is best politically.

This is not meant to be offensive to anyone, just my observation.

I hope the above will enlighten you some more.

Didn’t you say also say that older people naturally gravitate towards the Tory party? So surely these “young gullible people” will be brain washed into being Tories? Unless they have very young parents of course.

And school teachers brain wash kids into being commies? Really? Which lessons does this happen in?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This poll fails. What about those of us who are right-of-centre economically, but left-of-centre socially?

Also depends where you live. I’m left in the U.K., but centre-right in Germany. I’m probably a communist in America.

 

[Chicken Run]

Also depends where you live. I’m left in the U.K., but centre-right in Germany. I’m probably a communist in America.

I wonder what you’d be in Stoke on Trent, a target? [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[hans kraay fan club]

To be fair HKFC, I'm not taking the piss, BJ has had the hardest job of any PM since Churchill took on Adolf, he's clearly not perfect and he's made mistakes, as did Thatcher, Blair etc.....,but who could you offer up that could have done a better job in these unprecedented times?

Nobody is denying that it is a tough situation.

It really IS a hard job - no question, at all. My opinion (to be fair, the opinion of a great many people) is that he is doing it very, very badly. And that is when he actually IS doing it, at all.

Right at the critical outset of this catastrophic pandemic - when massive decisions were needed, he completely abdicated responsibility - he disappeared completely from government - either to go on holiday, or to sort out the latest shitshow in his private life.

He missed five straight COBRA meetings - again abdicating responsibility - but also setting the tone, to the nation, that this wasn't really a big deal. If it was, then the PM would be front and centre.

As for, who do I think would have done a BETTER job - honestly, bar Donald Trump, I'm struggling to think of literally anybody at all who is sure to have performed worse. Other Tory options would have done better. Alternative party leaders would have done better. There are many examples around the world of other nations' leaders, who have demonstrated they'd have done better.

In terms of realistic (Tory) options, even the terrible May, would at least have stayed hands-on, and would have taken responsibility. Nor she would have been in the thrall of the dangerous chancer, Cummings.

Hancock has demonstrated some responsibility - he'd have MANAGED the situation better.

Ideally, if it were to be a Tory, then I'd chose the one that got away - Rory Stewart - a guy with real-world experience - used to managing horrible situations. Also more likely than the others, IMO to have achieved cross-party co-operation - something that Johnson has actively avoided (then lied about).

But really - the answer is anybody.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Nobody is denying that it is a tough situation.

It really IS a hard job - no question, at all. My opinion (to be fair, the opinion of a great many people) is that he is doing it very, very badly. And that is when he actually IS doing it, at all.

Right at the critical outset of this catastrophic pandemic - when massive decisions were needed, he completely abdicated responsibility - he disappeared completely from government - either to go on holiday, or to sort out the latest shitshow in his private life.

He missed five straight COBRA meetings - again abdicating responsibility - but also setting the tone, to the nation, that this wasn't really a big deal. If it was, then the PM would be front and centre.

As for, who do I think would have done a BETTER job - honestly, bar Donald Trump, I'm struggling to think of literally anybody at all who is sure to have performed worse. Other Tory options would have done better. Alternative party leaders would have done better. There are many examples around the world of other nations' leaders, who have demonstrated they'd have done better.

In terms of realistic (Tory) options, even the terrible May, would at least have stayed hands-on, and would have taken responsibility. Nor she would have been in the thrall of the dangerous chancer, Cummings.

Hancock has demonstrated some responsibility - he'd have MANAGED the situation better.

Ideally, if it were to be a Tory, then I'd chose the one that got away - Rory Stewart - a guy with real-world experience - used to managing horrible situations. Also more likely than the others, IMO to have achieved cross-party co-operation - something that Johnson has actively avoided (then lied about).

But really - the answer is anybody.

We will just have to agree to differ old boy.........

Roll on Sat at 3.

 

[R. Slicker]

One of the problems with Twitter and so on is that its lack of truth induces false memories. Boris Johnson did not announce "herd immunity" at that or any other press conference, and if you think you heard him do it, you're wrong. The reference to immunity was to say that lack of immunity makes the disease more dangerous.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/12/uk-moves-to-delay-phase-of-coronavirus-plan

I'm sure It was mentioned at his 1st press conference, possibly by the scientists, as we debated it in the office after.
He also allowed himself to be grilled by Phil and Holly (FFS) where he said we should take it on the chin.


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