Politically, are you left or right wing?

[Wardy's twin]

I definitely agree with the juxtaposition of social change with what we consider to be our class pulling in different directions from historic reference points, both those matters alone would be worthy matters for discussion.

The left/right debate though is just too simplistic, and dumbs down the nuance of how people genuinely see themselves politically. Indeed, part of the problem with the political system we have is that we are essentially given a binary choice on Governments. I am not making a case there for proportional representation, personally I think that would be worse, but that is a helpful segway to the left and right debate.

The genesis of left/right is driven from the outcome of the French Revolution, the Revolutionary radicals (jacobins) sat on the left, the monarchists on the right. The key to what was left and right was therefore the scale of change. The radicals eventually got their way, and up came the national razor, the end of organised religion and even a new calendar (the 10 day week).

The monarchists obviously resisted this change and wanted to shift closer to the British constitutional monarchy where parliament governs and the monarch as head of state is reduced to broadly figure head.

History is now the only judge on whether France did benefit, my own view is that the reign of terror, which was how the radicals sought to control the population after the revolution was deeply facist and led to civil strife for decades. This period saw the rise of a tyrant which resulted in the Napoleonic wars that killed millions across Europe.

So, in my view left and right is effectively change, how much and how fast. If BLM is left so is Brexit. If keeping statues is right so is staying in the EU.

Radical change can be good it can be bad, and people can desire both.

i could have written more but not sure if anyone reads my comments.My left and right was about movement in thinking rather than just a static left wing or right wing place on a spectrum. The short bit I wrote missed off large chunks of political groups and concepts however we are polarising to the left and the right and whilst the extremes of these are small minorities they are the most vocal. I get what you are saying regards change versus as is' but again that is a little too simple.

What it all comes down to is resources and decisions around who gets what and forming groups to 'fight' for that. But what that statement ignores is how and why you form those groups and what cannot be ignored is the way humans think and react, flight or fight is deep within all of our subconscious thoughts and that is all about identifying similar and what you feel bonded to. Decision making is not always rational or consistent. You mentioned BREXIT, I was/am a remainer not because i love the EU as it is but why view is why change? No one has presented me with an economic argument for leaving . Guesses and comments that are whimsical yes, but most debate came to a 'taking back power' position which I can't relate to whereas a simple you will be £2k better off I can.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Very true, but if you look at just the farthest Left vs Rights, it is more like 3:1.

This is exactly why I always describe NSC are in a bubble, they need to look at the bigger picture.

The bubble caught them out with Brexit and the election.

Although they will still slur me in one way or another, I live in the real world, like yourself, some could say we are the voices of reason.

Couldn't agree more, as much as I'd love it to be August 1988 and I'm a 24 year old fanzine editor giving my Mum £15 a week and going out 5 nights out of 7, it sadly isn't.

I'm 55, employ 20 people, whose livelihoods and mortgage payments depend on the way I run my company, I still love the Albion, clearly don't go out 5 nights a week and would LOVE to write for a printed fanzine.



Many on here are in that 'bubble' of which you speak, is it just keyboard bravado?, in the main yes, but there are clearly some who have no concept of the real world.

 

[Machiavelli]

If you live in the real world and already describe NSC as a bubble then why comment? As I said to JCFG this is a message board for Brighton fans and the city has two Labour and one Green MP, a Labour council and voted Remain. I'd be absolutely amazed if the outcome had been any different.

Is the City of Brighton and Hove in a "bubble"? Compared to everything around it, yes it is. It's largely a self fulfilling prophecy too. Liberal people will move here, wealthy Tories will retire to the Sussex and Surrey countryside and less well off places will blame the EU for their plight and vote Brexit.

Oh yes, all of this, but we also need to factor in shy Tories, who don't like revealing their position, often because they want to avoid generating controversy. There's also a few that are embarrassed about their views -- "Are You Thinking What We're Thinking?" -- so don't want to express them publicly although, as this and so many other NSC threads illustrate, others aren't remotely embarrassed at expressing such views ...

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Oh yes, all of this, but we also need to factor in shy Tories, who don't like revealing their position, often because they want to avoid generating controversy. There's also a few that are embarrassed about their views -- "Are You Thinking What We're Thinking?" -- so don't want to express them publicly although, as this and so many other NSC threads illustrate, others aren't remotely embarrassed at expressing such views ...

Understandable right now, to be shy about admitting your support for the current government.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Couldn't agree more, as much as I'd love it to be August 1988 and I'm a 24 year old fanzine editor giving my Mum £15 a week and going out 5 nights out of 7, it sadly isn't.

I'm 55, employ 20 people, whose livelihoods and mortgage payments depend on the way I run my company, I still love the Albion, clearly don't go out 5 nights a week and would LOVE to write for a printed fanzine.



Many on here are in that 'bubble' of which you speak, is it just keyboard bravado?, in the main yes, but there are clearly some who have no concept of the real world.

I am 56 and have predominately earned my income like yourself through hard graft and adaptability. Maybe it gives us a more rounded view than the corporate employee, who consistently need direction.
Of course, diversity is key to any economy, but maybe in observing what has gone on around us, this has been right up 'our house in the middle of the street', which isn't in Hove.

Five days out a week, not sure I could cope with that now

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So you automatically link wealth with hard working people.

I hope you considered this before taking part in the NHS clap.

As I got older my personal wealth increased. And I've moved to the left.

And fell over the edge and banged your head
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Understandable right now, to be shy about admitting your support for the current government.

Speak for yourself !
Regards
DF

 

[zefarelly]

I am 56 and have predominately earned my income like yourself through hard graft and adaptability. Maybe it gives us a more rounded view than the corporate employee, who consistently need direction.
Of course, diversity is key to any economy, but maybe in observing what has gone on around us, this has been right up 'our house in the middle of the street', which isn't in Hove.

Five days out a week, not sure I could cope with that now

I'm 6-8 years younger, and similarly have done ok and always worked for it, Thats easy to say as we live in an area where, in my opinion, if you want/need work, its there, Pick and choose, I've never had to relocate, Never been unemployed ( for more than a week or two) and generally had choices. I'm no genius, and have average education/qualifications. Having travelled for work a lot in the 90's and seen most of the UK in the process, we are lucky to be in such a diverse location. Little wonder living here's expensive, everyone wants to be here.

I;ve never worked for a corporate, always smaller private companies, I think that keeps you on your toes, complacency can be terminal.

 

[Lenny Rider]

FWIW I think Boris has done an admirable job in unprecedented times.

 

[zefarelly]

FWIW I think Boris has done an admirable job in unprecedented times.

Does he even know he has a job?

 

[pb21]

Couldn't agree more, as much as I'd love it to be August 1988 and I'm a 24 year old fanzine editor giving my Mum £15 a week and going out 5 nights out of 7, it sadly isn't.

I'm 55, employ 20 people, whose livelihoods and mortgage payments depend on the way I run my company, I still love the Albion, clearly don't go out 5 nights a week and would LOVE to write for a printed fanzine.



Many on here are in that 'bubble' of which you speak, is it just keyboard bravado?, in the main yes, but there are clearly some who have no concept of the real world.

I am 56 and have predominately earned my income like yourself through hard graft and adaptability. Maybe it gives us a more rounded view than the corporate employee, who consistently need direction.
Of course, diversity is key to any economy, but maybe in observing what has gone on around us, this has been right up 'our house in the middle of the street', which isn't in Hove.

Five days out a week, not sure I could cope with that now

I wish I was as enlightened as you two chaps. I guess I just don't work hard enough or employ enough people

 

[amexer]

Understandable right now, to be shy about admitting your support for the current government.

Not shy . In unprecedented times has done ok. Dealing with post Virus is a poison chalice that no government would relish.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

So you automatically link wealth with hard working people.

I hope you considered this before taking part in the NHS clap.

As I got older my personal wealth increased. And I've moved to the left.

[MENTION=12697]Steve Foster[/MENTION] is the, self-proclaimed, richest poster on NSC. You should listen to him.

(Not sure how he came to this conclusion but I’d love to know)

 

[Knocky's Nose]

I believe in hard work and entrepreneurialism, which creates (or generates) money. If you don't want to work when you are able to, and expect the state to support you - you're a lazy good for nothing w*nker. That makes me right wing I suppose.

If you genuinely cannot physically work or are genuinely mentally unfit to work and need financial support - then that is the job of a civilised society to look after those who want to, but cannot work. It sounds condescending and it's not meant to be - but the saying "the strong must protect the weak" is very true. That makes me left wing I suppose.

The trouble is there are many strong people who pretend to be weak. These people cheat the system and f*ck it for the genuine cases. There should be a zero-tolerance approach for these people. That makes me right wing I suppose.

So, I voted "only just right of centre" .....

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

As I got older my personal wealth increased. And I've moved to the left.

I turned from a Tory voter to a socialist as my personal situation improved. By improved I mean my world broadened and my finances got better. This seems quite a natural and logical progression to me; not the opposite.

 

[jakarta]

I wish I was as enlightened as you two chaps. I guess I just don't work hard enough or employ enough people

Well pull your finger out!

 

[Eeyore]

I turned from a Tory voter to a socialist as my personal situation improved. By improved I mean my world broadened and my finances got better. This seems quite a natural and logical progression to me; not the opposite.

Same here. My political compass has been a journey from fairly hard right to soft left. It's stayed in the same place for about 15 years now. I guess that's it now. I use the term 'progressive socialist'.

I voted Tory up until 1997 and have not done so since. Been a member of the Green Party for 9 years now. I would be placed in the 'moderate' wing. It's not even that I agree with all their policies, I just like the good intentions of most.

 

[BBassic]

I am 56 and have predominately earned my income like yourself through hard graft and adaptability. Maybe it gives us a more rounded view than the corporate employee, who consistently need direction.
Of course, diversity is key to any economy, but maybe in observing what has gone on around us, this has been right up 'our house in the middle of the street', which isn't in Hove.

Five days out a week, not sure I could cope with that now

What a ridiculous sweeping statement. Well done.

 

[Bakero]

I believe in hard work and entrepreneurialism, which creates (or generates) money. If you don't want to work when you are able to, and expect the state to support you - you're a lazy good for nothing w*nker. That makes me right wing I suppose.

If you genuinely cannot physically work or are genuinely mentally unfit to work and need financial support - then that is the job of a civilised society to look after those who want to, but cannot work. It sounds condescending and it's not meant to be - but the saying "the strong must protect the weak" is very true. That makes me left wing I suppose.

The trouble is there are many strong people who pretend to be weak. These people cheat the system and f*ck it for the genuine cases. There should be a zero-tolerance approach for these people. That makes me right wing I suppose.

So, I voted "only just right of centre" .....

The greatest trick the rich ever pulled was to convince the world the poor are the problem.

Sure, there are benefit cheats, and I can see why that winds people up. When you're working hard, it's going to piss you off if your neighbour is scamming the system. What's more, it costs the country a pretty penny. However, the money lost to tax evasion dwarfs the figure lost to fraudulent benefit claims. Why isn't that the subject of people's ire?

 

[Deleted member 2719]

What a ridiculous sweeping statement. Well done.

I did put MAYBE.

I have worked at all levels with a good variation. I know some that have done the same job all their lives, just maybe I have a better overview than some.

Maybe I don't, but I do always gather up the whole jigsaw, before taking an overview.