OT How to reduce rush hour traffic problems on the M25

[Chester Drawers]

Get a HOV lane (a la USA)

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

What rubbish (with respect!).

If Tesco and Mc Donalds knew that their trucks could not use the M25 in rush hours they would just have to schedule their deliveries for a different time. Not too difficult.

And another thing, if trucks were banned from the M25 during rush hours, when they did use the motorway their journey times would be much reduced thus saving time and fuel.

My suggestion is making more and more sense the longer I consider it.

So when the trucks are on an overnight ferry crossing that gets delayed by two hours, would they drive up the M20 and then park up until 9am, or trucks waiting at Heathrow for goods and the plane is delayed, they then have to wait a further 2 hours until the road is "open" again. Or they are on the M40 at 5am and there is a crash causing long delays so they don't get to the M25 until 7am and then have to park.

What happens when they are on the M25 and there's congestion at 6.30am and they are delayed until 7am, do they then have to leave at the first available exit and park in a village or use back roads?

Most UK based Haulage services will try and send their lorry's outside of rush-hour as it is not efficient for them to have their lorries stuck and so already plan to avoid M25 between the rush hours.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Herr Tubthumper - you are absolutely bang on about slowing down when tailgated. Someone suggested this to me a couple of years ago and I find that generally it makes the tailgater back off (which is what you really want) but when they don't they get really mad and you can see them bouncing around in their seat. The closer they get the slower I go as if I'm going to get hit by one of these idiots I'd rather it was at 30mph than 70mph

This.

Its amazing really how many drivers have so little knowledge of the Highway Code. If anyone bothered to read it and take heed of its advice you would know the exact way to deal with tailgaters is to slow down because you need to account for their braking distance as well as your own but then most people don't seem to know about braking distances either

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Surely it would be better all round if UK drivers were educated so that they understand the inside/second lanes are perfectly usable...never ceases to amaze me just how many people sit in the middle lane (or third lane on 4 lane stretches) when there is over 1/2 mile or more of inside lane with zero traffic in it. All the while meaning everything behind them has to filter into one (outside) lane and causing a bottleneck.

Recently I've taken to sitting in the inside lane at 70 and undertaking on the M25, I've literally got from the Reigate turn (J8) to Leatherhead (J9) which must be 5 or 6 miles on numerous occasions doing so and only moving into the second lane to go round lorries.

Sssh, don't let everyone know the secret.....

 

[BensGrandad]

This lane education dates back to the original building of them when it was said there would be a slow medium and fast lane perhaps issuing penalty tickets by unmarked police patrol cars for driving without due consideration for other road users, would solve or ease the problem aftera period of time.

 

[simpleton]

Burgess Hill to New Malden, about 45 miles.

And before you say it yes it is my choice to do that but I really dont have an alternative. I could work in Burgess Hill but would probably have to drop £10k or I could move to New Malden but would probably have to trade a 3 bed house for a 2 bed flat not to mention being further away from the three F's (friends, family and Falmer).

But you arent actually making anything. You are driving around 21,600 miles a year to get to work. Assuming your car does 40mpg on that run then you are using about £3,500 petrol a year. That mileage is also also wiping around £4,000 pa off the value of a newish £20,000 car. Add in a set of tyres and additional servicing and you are spending around £8,000pa after tax income to earn an extra £10,000 pre tax. Take off tax and NI, depending on whether you pay 23% or 40% you would actually need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000 more just to break even. You are losing money and probably 12 hours a week commuting compared with working in Burgess Hill

 

[e77]

You are quite right in your observations about Beeching. That was a decision typified by successive governments that have been in the thrall (and pocket) of the road transport lobby, so that mass movement of goods by rail & water has all but disappeared.

Still, I suppose it could be worse. In parts of America at the start of the 20th century, car companies bought up rail companies dug up the tracks as they saw trains as a barrier to the success of the automobile!

Even if the train lines had stayed open they might still be expensive to go on. Problem in the south east that it is relatively easy to go to London or travel along the coast but a lot of places in the middle require multiple changes.

 

[e77]

It's an interesting situation though, people who contribute to congestion moaning about congestion.

I used to commute, thought it was (literally) a waste of time and did something about by setting up work at home. I'm probably an extreme case as I find sitting in a car frustrating and totally hate driving so something had to give. I appreciate not everyone can make a change but I'm convinced more people could make some sort of change for the better if they put their mind and wit to it and took some ownership of their direction in life. At least try.

A lot of the problem is that everyone in the south east seems to need to be somewhere at 0900,plus Gatwick and Heathrow are relatively near each other.

 

[goldstone]

So when the trucks are on an overnight ferry crossing that gets delayed by two hours, would they drive up the M20 and then park up until 9am, or trucks waiting at Heathrow for goods and the plane is delayed, they then have to wait a further 2 hours until the road is "open" again. Or they are on the M40 at 5am and there is a crash causing long delays so they don't get to the M25 until 7am and then have to park.

What happens when they are on the M25 and there's congestion at 6.30am and they are delayed until 7am, do they then have to leave at the first available exit and park in a village or use back roads?

Most UK based Haulage services will try and send their lorry's outside of rush-hour as it is not efficient for them to have their lorries stuck and so already plan to avoid M25 between the rush hours.

With great respect, it doesn't work like that at LHR. The movement of trucks carrying air cargo is not related to the times of specific flights. The cargo is moved from plane to warehouse and then put on scheduled truck services to its final destination. So flight delays are irrelevant.

As for the detailed rules linked to my proposal (such as trucks delayed by congestion), they would be for the "experts" to figure out

 

[CHAPPERS]

I saw the most dangerous piece of driving I have ever seen today.

It was 4:30 and wet on the m25 approaching the roadworks for the new service station....in the OUTSIDE LANE a f***ing brainless git in a huge artic truck with a Portuguese number plate hammering along...so it's the 50 mph zone, and as everyone was slowing down, he decides he didn't like this so he cut over three lanes, forcing one car to swerve out of his way and drove up the arse of another car, literally 2 feet from the bumper........the other car actually pulled out of his way to the right of him and he then did the same to a van.

Even when you watch police camera action now, the amount of foreign lorry drivers breaking the law is getting rediculous.

I have driven the m25 many times in the last 30 odd years and I have never seen it as bad as it is now.

I had a dutch lorry up my arse on the 50mph zone on the M25 the other evening. I refused to move even though he was literally 10 yards behind me. I was doing just about 49/50mph so to move would have been pointless for him anyway if he was to stick to the average speed limit. He backed off and started flashing me so the missus made me move over. Ridiculous.

 

[CHAPPERS]

When I was a lad....

Anyone else stop reading then?

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

I drive from Junction 11 (Chertsey) to Junction 15 (M4 towards London) to Southall and back just about every day at the moment, and even travelling half an hour later can make a massive difference to my journey. It can take anything from 10 minutes to 2 hours either way. My journey goes through most of the major blackspots on the M25, and because of such I see major problems most days.

My major one coming home is at the M3 turnoff, where lorries and cars bomb down the lanes to go on the M3 and then cut in. It causes major tailbacks almost every day, whereas I'm sure that if people got into the right lane at the right time, it would save most of the tailbacks there. Same can be said for the M4 turnoff going clockwise.

The sheer amount of dangerous driving around there is shocking, and must account for most of the accidents in that area. For instance, I was coming onto the M25 yesterday, in the right lane, as you have to do one lane change to get onto the M25. It was dark, raining and the visibility was poor, so I was going at about 60mph for safety. A guy in a flashy car drove within inches of the back of my car flashing his lights until I was forced to move over. He then changed lanes in front of me, and slammed his brakes on "to prove a point" so quickly that I had to emergency stop, at 60 miles an hour, in the rain. How I didn't run into the back of him I'll never know, and in my tiny car, I would have been seriously hurt. He then went in the left lane to go to Heathrow, making him going in my lane completely unnecessary. Hopefully one day he'll do that in front of an unmarked police car, and get the book thrown at him. And that's just one instance. Lorries cut across lanes without looking, nearly going over other cars. I wouldn't be surprised if dangerous driving by lorries played a part in the massive M5 crash a couple of weeks ago.

The volume of cars must make an impact, maybe taking away the traditional 9-5 may make a difference - eg making more people do 10-6 or 8-4, but I know that wouldn't be all that popular!!

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

This.

Its amazing really how many drivers have so little knowledge of the Highway Code. If anyone bothered to read it and take heed of its advice you would know the exact way to deal with tailgaters is to slow down because you need to account for their braking distance as well as your own but then most people don't seem to know about braking distances either

My new one to deal with these idiots (which is probably illegal) is to put my hazards on. Makes drivers sh*t themselves.

 

[JJ McClure]

That mileage is also also wiping around £4,000 pa off the value of a newish £20,000 car.

If I had a £20,000 car that would be true. As it is I drive a 10 year old Astra diesel with 156,000 miles on the clock. As its worth practically nothing, I'm losing practically nothing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But you arent actually making anything. You are driving around 21,600 miles a year to get to work. Assuming your car does 40mpg on that run then you are using about £3,500 petrol a year. That mileage is also also wiping around £4,000 pa off the value of a newish £20,000 car. Add in a set of tyres and additional servicing and you are spending around £8,000pa after tax income to earn an extra £10,000 pre tax. Take off tax and NI, depending on whether you pay 23% or 40% you would actually need to earn between £12,000 and £15,000 more just to break even. You are losing money and probably 12 hours a week commuting compared with working in Burgess Hill

it's an hour and 15 if you let the train take the strain.

 

[Littlehampton Palace]

Ban lorries and coaches from overtaking simples ie only inside lane for all speed resticted vans etc

 

[Spiros]

My new one to deal with these idiots (which is probably illegal) is to put my hazards on. Makes drivers sh*t themselves.

Illegal as it probably is I like that idea. That may get tested on the A27 very soon.

 

[KneeOn]

What rubbish (with respect!).

If Tesco and Mc Donaldsknew that their trucks could not use the M25 in rush hours they would just have to schedule their deliveries for a different time. Not too difficult.

And another thing, if trucks were banned from the M25 during rush hours, when they did use the motorway their journey times would be much reduced thus saving time and fuel.

My suggestion is making more and more sense the longer I consider it.

Have you ever considered teh knock on effects of this?

If our trucks can't run as they do now, they ahve to fit the delivery of 10 or more stores (for the McDonalds ones) in such a short space of time.

It's very difficult, because then you're asking for people to be working until 12 or 1 if the trucks can't drive between 7-9 and 5-7. Why should I (some one who uses public transport for all his commuting to both work and Uni in portsmouth) have to work until 10pm on a sunday becuase you have to be somewhere?

 

[e77]

If I had a £20,000 car that would be true. As it is I drive a 10 year old Astra diesel with 156,000 miles on the clock. As its worth practically nothing, I'm losing practically nothing.

In some respects rush hour driving is a great leveller. Really you only need a car that starts, is vaguely economical, has a comfortable driving position and a passable sound system and you will still be making as much progress as someone in an 80k Merc.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The Highway Code states the following in relation to lane discipline: 264 You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking.

Having driven from Brighton to Billericay yesterday (A23 / M23 / M25 / A127) in a vehicle fitted with a 100kph speed limiter, I can report that the inability even to think of reaching the speed of faster moving traffic makes for a very much more relaxed journey. OK ... an extra 15 minutes for the trip, but what's the hurry?