Oh dear police force..... Not good

[BadFish]

All these kids are intrinsically scum, they are scum now and always will be. There is no redemption for them, there is no chance of them becoming people who contribute to society in any meaningful way. They are told this every day of their lives, by teachers, police and politicians. Stop and search them, beat them with sticks and five armored mates to back you up. Get them back under control and let the resentment and anger simmer until the next spark. Don't listen to them, don't learn any lessons, don't change the factors which are driving this cycle. Just wait until the next riot so we can all be appalled and disgusted at these irredeemable scum-bags who just love to thieve and rob and fight and live in fear.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Meades Ball your talking Bull, I have been a reckless bastard and have served 5 prison sentences that ended over 25yrs ago. You Sir are the soft minded liberal sort of Twat that allowed me to embark on a career of lawlessness beacuase I knew your type would always make an exception or excuse for me! Grow up. I know I am a JCL but I had to say something!

Thanks for the kind words there, you criminal brute.
I'm not a bewigged judge or one of twelve to deliver verdicts, so i don't actually have the power to let you or any other JCLs off.
I merely commented on the video-clip shown in the origins of this thread that i found unsettling and unjust. You might disagree with me and i don't mind that you do. I don't want to be trapped in a boring world of softly-spoken dudley do-rights, so i'm glad there's varied opinion.

 

[crasher]

On my last sentence I was involved in a one on one victim of the sort of crime I had been perpetrating, it was life changing, she was a lovely 'grandma type', in her 80's who was initially terrified of me! How she managed the courage to come to the prison I will never know. Anyhow, she was the catalyst that made me wonder what I had done to my family and my friends and to my victims. I ressolved to never cause harm to people again, that was over 25yrs ago and I am glad to say that I am free of it and that little old lady who I knew not from Adam turned my life around, I knew hardship in the 70's penal institutions, these kids get treats. It makes me think we need the old ways back!

Thanks - it's interesting to read cos I must admit I've got no direct experience of the law and punishment. But, if I've understood correctly, aren't you saying that it was meeting a victim and thinking about her experience that prompted the change. Not the toughness of the institutions you'd been in?

 

[marshy68]

I'm not that works in the long term mate. Where you had one to deal with, you now have three.

Personally - I wouldn't bother putting them in prison. I'd make them wear pink jump suits and clean up the place. Probably with a webcam.

Introduce some form of "I'm a celebrity concept" by linking the quality of work to their supper.

Rewarding those with new trainers who had worked the hardest, ..er "probably".


Half through I'd introduce some new contestants - their parents.

and you wonder why this is happening.....

 

[Sussex Nomad]

I merely commented on the video-clip shown in the origins of this thread that i found unsettling and unjust.

Do you find the looters/murderers/robbers/arsonists unsettling and unjust in the thousand or so more video clips you could view? Or does it pass you by?

 

[cunning fergus]

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will leave the World blind and toothless - Gandhi.

We will fight them on the beaches - Churchill.

 

[The Rivet]

Meades Ball, I am never going to get involved in a prolonged argument with you here about criminality or morals or anything else, surfice to say that I am not a dim witted 'criminal Brute' as you so delicately put it but, far more poitically minded than you may have ever expected a 'very old' jail bird to be! I do not agree with your liberal minded philosophy and even I agree I desreved a bloody battering when I was a bad person. Grow up, people can be nasty and they can be redemed but, not by softly soflty only, you also need a bloody big stick! And Sir, I have been on the justice end you haven't, what do you know?

 

[The Rivet]

Crasher you are correct Sir! The institution could do whatever it wanted and I wouldn't budge cause they were the enemy (well that's the way I saw it aged 17) but, when faced with your actions in the real world it made a difference on me!

 

[BadFish]

Thanks - it's interesting to read cos I must admit I've got no direct experience of the law and punishment. But, if I've understood correctly, aren't you saying that it was meeting a victim and thinking about her experience that prompted the change. Not the toughness of the institutions you'd been in?

Sounds like restorative justice to me - a load of lefty handwringing liberal claptrap that could never work!

 

[The Rivet]

Wow Bad Fish, I am glad someone worked it out, sorry, I was being sarcastic! You have no idea, restorative justice?! Jeez, I was serving a 27 month prison sentance at the time and met her in prison, equate that with your research, muppet!

 

[BadFish]

Crasher you are correct Sir! The institution could do whatever it wanted and I wouldn't budge cause they were the enemy (well that's the way I saw it aged 17) but, when faced with your actions in the real world it made a difference on me!

And if you or one of your mates were beaten by a policeman with a stick and five of his armoured mates..... how would you have felt, even though you might have deserved it.

seriously would it have helped you see the error of your ways ot would it in fact have made you more anti social and increased the size of the chip on your shoulder.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Do you find the looters/murderers/robbers/arsonists unsettling and unjust in the thousand or so more video clips you could view? Or does it pass you by?

No i find their actions completely abhorrent. I am not in a thread about that though. if you want my opinion of what has happened then i'll just admit that i am in a deep and sickened shock with it all. I don't get it, and i suppose i find that really very annoying. To see small businesses especially being looted and individuals not having the insurance to cover their losses is a f***ing horrible thing to see even on tv. I live a few hundred yards from where some of it's been going on and various roads around me are closed off. My windows are locked tight and the sirens are heard roaring throughout the night. I don't fear for my life necessarily, but worry over my girlfriend travelling about London as she should have the right to do, and just the mess everywhere, the surreal carnage of it all. My football match on Monday night was cancelled because they closed the centre down in slightly-east London for fear of trouble. That's just all weird.
I don't, though, see an individual being whacked to the floor as a just form of punishment administered by an individual policeman. I don't want to live in a world where that is seen as fair treatment. And i don't want to live in a world where i am ever entitled to deliver a verdict on what sort of physical punishment anyone should receive. I haven't the knowhow to judge, so why would my opinion be worthy of which bone to break?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Actually [MENTION=20840]The Rivet[/MENTION] you are proof that people can change their lives. Interesting read that it seems you are still getting shouted down for by the sensitive board members.

 

[um bongo molongo]

A very sane and concise take on it, well done London Blue

I live 3 mins away from clapham junction. 6 weeks ago I had my flat burgled whilst on holiday, and last week my best mate's dad, in his late 60s and living on his own, had his door kicked in at 3am by 4 young black guys and when he confronted them was attacked with a machete. It nearly killed him and he may never walk again. Then this week my neighbourhood's destroyed.

A little over ten years ago I used to manage my dads sports shop in Brighton (less than 400 yards from the police station) and had to tackle an almost daily array of shoplifters, heroin addicts and at one point regular attacks by groups of youths, led by a big mid 20s black guy called Ben. At one point this guy walked back past the shop after the attack in a tracksuit top stolen an hour earlier and waved. The police did f*** all despite knowing exactly who he was. One day we managed to catch one of the youths, gave him a (light) shoeing and restrained him with his arm behind his back and called the police. When the officer arrived the first thing she did was complain about the force we were using on his arm to hold him in place, then greeted him by name, cuffed him, gave him a talking to, and let him go. When I complained (admittedly with a swear word) I was threatened with arrest myself!

The moral of the story is that if you allow any criminal behaviour to go unpunished, if you don't set boundaries and have proper consequences for bad behaviour, in homes, schools or public, then things just get worse and worse. It's long been time for a New York, Rudy Guiliani style zero tolerance behaviour on ALL criminal activity. That means more prosecutions, more jail places and more robust policing, along with clarifying laws to enable parents and teachers to discipline kids properly. You can argue whether this video is 'robust' or 'over the top', but as far as I can see he gets up and walks away just fine so more than happy with it, am sure the 200+ police injured over the last few nights have been subject to a hell of a lot worse.

Rant over.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

No i find their actions completely abhorrent. I am not in a thread about that though. if you want my opinion of what has happened then i'll just admit that i am in a deep and sickened shock with it all. I don't get it, and i suppose i find that really very annoying. To see small businesses especially being looted and individuals not having the insurance to cover their losses is a f***ing horrible thing to see even on tv. I live a few hundred yards from where some of it's been going on and various roads around me are closed off. My windows are locked tight and the sirens are heard roaring throughout the night. I don't fear for my life necessarily, but worry over my girlfriend travelling about London as she should have the right to do, and just the mess everywhere, the surreal carnage of it all. My football match on Monday night was cancelled because they closed the centre down in slightly-east London for fear of trouble. That's just all weird.
I don't, though, see an individual being whacked to the floor as a just form of punishment administered by an individual policeman. I don't want to live in a world where that is seen as fair treatment. And i don't want to live in a world where i am ever entitled to deliver a verdict on what sort of physical punishment anyone should receive. I haven't the knowhow to judge, so why would my opinion be worthy of which bone to break?

Thanks for the confirmation. I don't agree with the final paragraph obviously, but that's neither here nor there. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed.

 

[BadFish]

On my last sentence I was involved in a one on one victim of the sort of crime I had been perpetrating, it was life changing, she was a lovely 'grandma type', in her 80's who was initially terrified of me! How she managed the courage to come to the prison I will never know. Anyhow, she was the catalyst that made me wonder what I had done to my family and my friends and to my victims. I ressolved to never cause harm to people again, that was over 25yrs ago and I am glad to say that I am free of it and that little old lady who I knew not from Adam turned my life around, I knew hardship in the 70's penal institutions, these kids get treats. It makes me think we need the old ways back!

Sorry Rivet i missed the sarcasm in this post. i must be a muppet. I apologise. bring back the birch!!!

 

[tezz79]

And if you or one of your mates were beaten by a policeman with a stick and five of his armoured mates..... how would you have felt, even though you might have deserved it.

seriously would it have helped you see the error of your ways ot would it in fact have made you more anti social and increased the size of the chip on your shoulder.

Hang on don't get it mixed up !
He saw the error of his ways once he was in the system, what we're talking about here is getting a bunch of marauding fuckers to stop ransacking a city ..... Big difference, what happens once they're inside is another issue but this is about the policing of rioting mobs

 

[The Rivet]

And if you or one of your mates were beaten by a policeman with a stick and five of his armoured mates..... how would you have felt, even though you might have deserved it.

seriously would it have helped you see the error of your ways ot would it in fact have made you more anti social and increased the size of the chip on your shoulder.

I have stood in the dock and have taken lenghty sentences, funny enough those sentences carry a time period, you get to laying there 23 hrs a day behind a very small door wondering what the hell you have done and to whom. I deserved my time and I have no chips whatsoever, very silly of you to assume that I have! Badfish I will give you one concession, back then I may have reacted very differently to how I do now. I would have wanted to attack the police but, today, wiser and very much more sanguin I would agree to servere punishment for the perpertrater, PUBLIC NAKED BIRCHING, shame is the answer, public shame.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Meades Ball, I am never going to get involved in a prolonged argument with you here about criminality or morals or anything else, surfice to say that I am not a dim witted 'criminal Brute' as you so delicately put it but, far more poitically minded than you may have ever expected a 'very old' jail bird to be! I do not agree with your liberal minded philosophy and even I agree I desreved a bloody battering when I was a bad person. Grow up, people can be nasty and they can be redemed but, not by softly soflty only, you also need a bloody big stick! And Sir, I have been on the justice end you haven't, what do you know?

I was teasingly name-calling following your calling me a twat, you see.
I don't have an opinion of you. I'm glad you're comfortable in yourself thanks to whatever combination of events and circumstances happened. From the look it of it, you changed your ways with the aid of a sort of fairy godmother. It's good that you learnt your lesson and are who you are now thanks to it. And i don't say that patronisingly. You have your opinion of justice and i have mine and i think we'll both wake in the morning still thinking the same things. And that's just fine.

 

[The Rivet]

Tezz, thank you very much, over 25yrs without hurting a soul and I intend to keep it that way. Thank you