Oh dear police force..... Not good

[The Rivet]

The real thing is, do we want a strong message of punishment? ie, long Sentences? Yes I guess we all do but, that is no good without rehabilitation, you have to try and fix the buggers because if we don't it will cost the tax payer millions, decade upon decade. The public have, should and will unite because, that is human nature. However we need true in depth discussions into why so many people feel disaffected within their own so called society. Remember I aint trying to excuse the behaviour, it's a discussion item.

 

[The Rivet]

No direspect for London Blue but, Dirk Steele you made me giggle

 

[HovaGirl]

The real thing is, do we want a strong message of punishment? ie, long Sentences? Yes I guess we all do but, that is no good without rehabilitation, you have to try and fix the buggers because if we don't it will cost the tax payer millions, decade upon decade. The public have, should and will unite because, that is human nature. However we need true in depth discussions into why so many people feel disaffected within their own so called society. Remember I aint trying to excuse the behaviour, it's a discussion item.

I would agree with what you say about rehabilitation under normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. There are simply too many to rehabilitate. Therefore, a strong message must be sent out, which is being sent out, that the perpetrators will be tracked down, taken before the courts and be punished. This, alone, might be enough to make such people think twice about inciting such mass looting again. They will have learnt that the law is there and it will deal with them. One of the reasons given for the looting, was simply because they could, that the law would do nothing.

 

[The Rivet]

I would agree with what you say about rehabilitation under normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. There are simply too many to rehabilitate. Therefore, a strong message must be sent out, which is being sent out, that the perpetrators will be tracked down, taken before the courts and be punished. This, alone, might be enough to make such people think twice about inciting such mass looting again. They will have learnt that the law is there and it will deal with them. One of the reasons given for the looting, was simply because they could, that the law would do nothing.

Hovagirl, I am agreeing with you that the sumbags be targeted, publically shamed and are made to serve a long inprisonment however, I disagree that there are too many to process, that they will all get away with it. They think that, maybe! but, they wont, they live in that cycle of criminality and violence/intimimdation that will enevitably be their downfall

 

[HovaGirl]

Hovagirl, I am agreeing with you that the sumbags be targeted, publically shamed and are made to serve a long inprisonment however, I disagree that there are too many to process, that they will all get away with it. They think that, maybe! but, they wont, they live in that cycle of criminality and violence/intimimdation that will enevitably be their downfall

I don't believe they will get away with it but will be fined or serve prison sentences according to the severity of their crimes. I believe many went on the rampage BECAUSE they thought they would get away with it. Some of the looters seem to be respectable people, normally: students; a ballerina; a teacher, and others, who, somehow, just got caught up in it all. These people may just have been stopped in their tracks, and think again about their lives and the lives of those they have damaged. As for the rest, some of them appear to have been gangland opportunists who organised a mass rampage, and even they may have been surprised at the turnout. Those types won't think again, except to conceive more and worse means of thieving and robbing to get loot they can fence to fuel their drug and other habits. They are also the types who may have been more careful of being filmed on various TV cameras and by people filming on mobile phones. But some of them will be known to the police, and, once caught, the full force of the law will probably come down on them, and put them away for a long time. As to the rest, and the ganglanders who don't get caught, to be honest, it is probably too late for them.

This whole shocking episode, however, has made people think. Even the politicians (except for the silly Harriet Harperson) are not making it a political issue, but all agree that it is a social and moral issue. At last, I believe there will be committees and enquiries and I hope the end result is that the causes are addressed, and that much will be done to haul Britain (or England) back into being a country with a social conscience, where our schools, police and parents start all over again, and make sure the next generation is not so bereft of education and chances as this one is.

 

[BadFish]

I haven't been able to catch up with this thread as I am at work. But it should be pointed out that i am in no way suggesting that we should go hard on people doing the wring thing. However it does seem to me that if they have little choice or perceived choice then they will make the same choices again. Youth think they are bullet proof and they think that they are too smart to get caught. ONce they do then then the reoffenders rate in Britain suggests that they are on a path they are not going to get off.

So my suggestion is to find a way to offer them more choices of lifestyle to cut down on those choosing the easy way out. Some of the kids out there are too young to have already made that choice to head down a life of crime a prison.

So i suggest that while consequences of wrong doing should be severe they should not be at the expense of redemption. They should also not be dealt out by the police as in the example we have seen. I can understand why it happened, i even agree that the little shit probably deserved it but do i want that to be normal practice. Hell f***ing no! I would also like to think that the policeman involved , in the cold light of day, will reflect and understand that he did the wrong thing. Should he be punished for it? no as there are mitigating circumstances.

As for not caring about the victims of these riots, that is just utter bollocks. I am just keen that some lessons are learnt about how we treat certain sections of our society and we give people the opportunity to make the right choices. Making no changes to the world view of some people will mean a continuation of the frustration, disconnection and alienation which has fueled these riots and mean that they will reoccur as will the anti social behaviour.

 

[tezz79]

The poor INNOCENT 68 year old from Ealing has just died from the beating he took while trying to stamp out a fire...... Oh but let's not worry about that ay as long as we protect the little fuckers from getting a couple of wraps around the leg we can all feel good about ourselves & happy that we live in a "civilised" country !!!

Pathetic the bubbles some people live in while spouting soft shit about animals that couldn't give a toss about you, your opinions, your property or authority

 

[BadFish]

The poor INNOCENT 68 year old from Ealing has just died from the beating he took while trying to stamp out a fire...... Oh but let's not worry about that ay as long as we protect the little fuckers from getting a couple of wraps around the leg we can all feel good about ourselves & happy that we live in a "civilised" country !!!

Pathetic the bubbles some people live in while spouting soft shit about animals that couldn't give a toss about you, your opinions, your property or authority

Reactionary bullshit. I don't give a toss about the kid who got a smack from the policeman. But i don't want the police to act that way and i think it is wrong. Punishment is the job of the judicial system not the police. If the police are allowed and encouraged to act in this way, then what happens when they get it wrong? The looters must be punished, but that punishment must be given out in the right way.

 

[tezz79]

I'm all for the idea of giving youth & communities choices in life & poverty stricken areas need to be given special attention & I agree that changes have to be made but I also know is that a softly softly approach to people rioting WILL NOT work, we can't pussy foot around them while they run around killing, looting & burning.
I also think a lot of these people especially some of the kids are not hardened criminals but for want of a better word kind of got swept up in the crowd & got caught in the moment and egged on by their friends ect therefore the short sharp shock of a Batton round or something along them lines could make them think twice next time

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What really pisses me off about these riots is the selfish stupidity of the people doing it. In Syria people are literally dying to try and get a measure of freedom, these tossers are "rebelling" for a free telly. In Syria of course the police really go in hard - but I don't suppose even those of you who are sick of "liberal-minded" people would advocate Syrian-style policing?

Agreed but it would have been nice to see our Police act like the French police do.

 

[tezz79]

Reactionary bullshit. I don't give a toss about the kid who got a smack from the policeman. But i don't want the police to act that way and i think it is wrong. Punishment is the job of the judicial system not the police. If the police are allowed and encouraged to act in this way, then what happens when they get it wrong? The looters must be punished, but that punishment must be given out in the right way.

So how do police gain contol of the streets once these things kick off then ?

 

[tezz79]

Agreed but it would have been nice to see our Police act like the French police do.

Yep my point exactly

 

[tezz79]

Reactionary bullshit. I don't give a toss about the kid who got a smack from the policeman. But i don't want the police to act that way and i think it is wrong. Punishment is the job of the judicial system not the police. If the police are allowed and encouraged to act in this way, then what happens when they get it wrong? The looters must be punished, but that punishment must be given out in the right way.

Hahaha "bullshit" what like your argument that they all need punishing by the judicial system once being caught & brought under control by means that don't allow police to get a bit rough with them ? Maybe in your ideal world the police could get a chopper to drop a big net on them all or something
Oh & as for your question about what happens when police get it wrong..... Well a f***ing bruised leg I would have thought but seeing as this was in the middle of the night whilst a full blown riot was kicking off & the little shits mates all fled for some reason (proberbly know by the OB at the time) I doubt they got it wrong mate somehow

 

[Westdene Seagull]

BBC News - Video shows police beating suspect

I understand they have been under alot of stress but this seems bang bang out of order.

This may have already been pointed out but I gave up at page six !!!

As you seem to want to make assumptions based on a short video clip here's another :

Watch the clip to the end and you'll see a row of riot police across the road the people on bikes came out of. It's strange that the group of police that carried out the beating were at one point just walking along the road but the next, with no capability to see the people on bikes, sprinting towards the end of the road. I would suggest those on bikes had been spotted doing something wrong by the riot police I mention in my first sentence. Said police radioed the fact they had seen this and the police who carried out the beating realised how close they were and reacted.

See, we can all make assumptions based on 90 seconds of video. You've decided to be investigator, prosecutor and judge of the police - many others on here have done the same towards those on the bikes but in reality all any of us really know is that there were some real scum on the streets that night, the police had a very rough time and anyone with any sense would have been at home in bed, watching TV, on NSC or giving the other half one.

 

[BadFish]

Hahaha "bullshit" what like your argument that they all need punishing by the judicial system once being caught & brought under control by means that don't allow police to get a bit rough with them ? Maybe in your ideal world the police could get a chopper to drop a big net on them all or something
Oh & as for your question about what happens when police get it wrong..... Well a f***ing bruised leg I would have thought but seeing as this was in the middle of the night whilst a full blown riot was kicking off & the little shits mates all fled for some reason (proberbly know by the OB at the time) I doubt they got it wrong mate somehow

How did this help bring the riot under control. 5 policemen 1 kid is hardly a good use of police resources.

I am not suggesting they got it wrong this time. What about the next time? If yo are happy for the police to dish out beatings who is to say that they will not get the right person in the future. That is what the judiciary system is for, innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BadFish]

So how do police gain contol of the streets once these things kick off then ?

Well arresting the kids and sticking him in a police van to be tried in court like they are supposed to, rather than wasting time beating him might be a start.

But really that is probably a question for one of the police on this board, i am sure that there are systems in place to deal with kind of stuff and very experience police officers making decisions on the best strategies to use. I don't think 5 officers standing around while one beats a kid is one of them do you?

 

[StillHateBellotti]

Chuck this in the mix! EDL march in Bolton on Coppers last night C4 i think, they started to kick of even less than Manchesters finest. There was baton rage and not one complaint. They knew what may happen if they kicked off, caused bother whatever you want to call it! How because the lad was on a BMX of girls mountain bike things change.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

How did this help bring the riot under control. 5 policemen 1 kid is hardly a good use of police resources.

I am not suggesting they got it wrong this time. What about the next time? If yo are happy for the police to dish out beatings who is to say that they will not get the right person in the future. That is what the judiciary system is for, innocent until proven guilty.

Right...as the victims of this thuggish behaviour are innocent.

 

[xenophon]

 

[BadFish]

Swagger Jagger is to blame.. and simon cowell....makes sense to me.