Obesity "not individuals' fault"

[Nibble]

Wouldn't "Health education in Europe" yield better results?

So what have we had now the Bozza?

Prove it - great line

and now the old spelling correction angle, which is clearly a typo. Your arguments just blow me out of the water.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

I excercise pretty much every day thanks.


I just get sick of people on this forum who can't come up with any better argument than "prove it". Look it up for yourself. It is not a case of me having to chill.

I meant the words f*** Off in a very relaxed fashion.

Nibble I am not questioning your argument but I have just looked on the net for information on European investment in public health education, it is pretty difficult to find!

 

[Kylies Stunt Arse]

Be amazed fool!

I read reports. Listen to the news. read papers. For example if you google "Health eductaion in Europe" one of the first things that comes up is an interview with Gordon Brown and other politicians about the comparison between British health eductaion and the rest of Europe.

Yes, because you can believe absolutely everything that's printed in newspapers and on the internet can't you?

I don't doubt that more is done in other countries to promote a healthier lifestyle, I also think that the way of life and also the amount of crap food that is available is different to the UK, which would also help to keep the number of fatties down elsewhere.

I think there is a lot more that can be done to educate in this country, however I think that while targetting kids is a good idea, they also need to target the parents more as it is they that provide the food for their kids.

As someone else that was a lardarse I know just how easy it is to stuff the cheap processed crap into your trolley as it saves you both time and cash, but the effort involved in cooking something fresh and actually good for you is well worth it.

 

[Nibble]

I think people accept your argument that some people are stupid, easily influenced, and unwilling to take responsibility for their own or their children's health. That is still their own fault though, and telling them that it isn't still isn't helpful.

 

[NMH]

Let's not overlook, for all you happy drinkers, the additives in booze - to make you thirsty quicker.
And that packet of crisps, nice and salty - some even have SALT as the first acclaimed flavour!

Salt (Sodium) will make your body hold more fluid, but those same cells, full to the brink with moisture, are crying out for more! (?) And you still drank a load of water before you went to bed, and you STILL woke up with a hangover (because the fluid suspending your brain in your cranium was not replenished - to compensate for the water needed everywhere in the rest of your body)(and that's because there were addatives in that booze, designed to make your body crave fluids into every cell)(and you wonder how cancer is rife in modern civilization!)

 

[Bozza]

I read reports. Listen to the news. read papers.

So that'll all be completely unbiased reporting then? Good.

(And why did you tell me to go to government websites earlier?)

For example if you google "Health eductaion in Europe" one of the first things that comes up is an interview with Gordon Brown and other politicians about the comparison between British health eductaion and the rest of Europe.

Even if I use the correct spelling I'm still not seeing this. Can you give an explicit URL to this web dummy please?

 

[Bozza]

Your arguments just blow me out of the water.

Once again (and shall I say this really slowly?), I'm not trying to argue. I have no idea of the relative merits of health education across Europe and I'd appreciate you pointing me in the direction of some of the extensive research you seem to have done.

 

[Les Biehn]

Right, just went on a google search of biscuits and these are the ones. Awesome, get yourselfs a whole pack and stuff teh lot.

 

[Curious Orange]

Oh, come on Nibble, we all know that better education and controls on advertising might help for some, but we're still all in control of what we put in our gobs.

 

[Kylies Stunt Arse]

The point is some people really are too thick to think for themselves and wether you like it or not society and the government has a responsibility to educate these people and to stop food manafacturers targeting and exploiting them.

At least you're not being condescending at all here.

What exactly do you expect the Government to do with these people that are "too thick to think for themselves"? They can have leaflets and TV ads and all sorts of things shoved in their face but next time they pass a McDonalds they will still go in as they're "too thick" to think about it.

Maybe taxing the unhealthy stuff isn't a bad idea. I don't think we pay VAT on fresh fruit and veg anyway so not sure that you could make it cheaper. On the whole I do think that people are changing the way they eat and that people are becoming a lot more aware of the things that go into their food, but any changes to the way this country is perceived is going to take ages, and is not going to be visible overnight.

Regardless of this, giving people an easy cop out by allowing them to clain it isn't their fault cannot ever be a good idea.

 

[sten_super]

Nibble, I still don't see quite why you don't like the idea of people taking responsibility for themselves, and for their own actions?

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the point of view of anyone that says that we should be taking responsibility away from people. Especially responsibility for their own health! We should be encouraging people to take a more active standpoint in their own life, making their own decisions, and living with the consequences.

 

[Meade's Ball]

An interesting piece in the paper the other day of a commenter's grandmother finally reaching a geriatric state at the age of 94. And within this century our average age will rise to about 94, decrepit and diseased for the last 40 years of breathing and vegetatively slumping in chairs that rock less than our bodies. And before that we compete in order to claim our entitlement of reaching that hundred mark and letter from Queen William congratulating us.

Obesity, i would guess, as well as the genetic side of things, is about, like all uncomfortabilities, sorrow. The overweight eat to fill time and voids and provide answer to urges they have the capacity to do. I eat too much whenever i feel unhappy, and that can be too often. So the overall answer, on top of the exercise, would be to find a reason for life in some way, which makes you forget of the habits of pleasurable convenience always so handy.
People unhappy enough to act in a way that damages themselves oughtn't have the Mr Perfect McMacho response of "sort yourself out" or "shut your fat mouth" or "learn about life and responsibility" as that isolates and distresses someone into the hole they'd maybe rather climb out of. All psychological disturbances or wrongul pleasures can take an eon to remedy if that's what people want.

I just bored myself there.

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Nibble, I still don't see quite why you don't like the idea of people taking responsibility for themselves, and for their own actions?

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the point of view of anyone that says that we should be taking responsibility away from people. Especially responsibility for their own health! We should be encouraging people to take a more active standpoint in their own life, making their own decisions, and living with the consequences.

Sten, this was also from the report in the BBC article:

Nonetheless, they said every level of society, from individuals to the upper echelons of government, had to become involved in the campaign against a condition which carried such great social and economic consequences.

That doesn't sound like a cop out on individual resposibilty to me, it says everyone should take action.
But what I think Nibble is saying the the health education does need to be a bit better in the UK than it is now.
Is it wrong for the state to discourage unhealthy foods like it does smoking and drinking? I think that it should possibly be put on the same level considering it is going to cost us all fortunes in tax to pay for the problems of obesity.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Right, just went on a google search of biscuits and these are the ones. Awesome, get yourselfs a whole pack and stuff teh lot.

That's my good dietary habits for the day BLOWN now, you fool. As I am stupid and easily led, I have NO CHOICE but to do as you say. And as for all this talk of McDonalds.....

 

[Nibble]

Once again (and shall I say this really slowly?), I'm not trying to argue. I have no idea of the relative merits of health education across Europe and I'd appreciate you pointing me in the direction of some of the extensive research you seem to have done.

I tell you what Bozza I will find you some pointers for you to look at but I'll tell you something - you don't know how to debate. You are a sarcastic little man who clearly likes to pick up on semantics as oppose to actually debate. It is hilarious when people constantly bang on about proof. I'l get you your proof but as you are aware it is quite hard to access this info. I happen to know about it because I keep an eye on world affairs.

 

[Nibble]

Nibble, I still don't see quite why you don't like the idea of people taking responsibility for themselves, and for their own actions?

I cannot, for the life of me, understand the point of view of anyone that says that we should be taking responsibility away from people. Especially responsibility for their own health! We should be encouraging people to take a more active standpoint in their own life, making their own decisions, and living with the consequences.

I don't think we should take responsibility away. I do like the idea of people being responsible for themselves but some people are clearly incapable of it aren't they. That is why I am saying some help and better education should be offered by the government.

 

[Lokki 7]

I'l get you your proof but as you are aware it is quite hard to access this info. I happen to know about it because I keep an eye on world affairs.

That sounds like a Leslie Nielson quote from Police Squad.

 

[Bozza]

I tell you what Bozza I will find you some pointers for you to look at but I'll tell you something - you don't know how to debate. You are a sarcastic little man who clearly likes to pick up on semantics as oppose to actually debate. It is hilarious when people constantly bang on about proof. I'l get you your proof but as you are aware it is quite hard to access this info. I happen to know about it because I keep an eye on world affairs.

Are you not reading what I am saying? I am not trying to debate or argue the health education angle with you, because I know nothing about it. As I keep saying. I'd just be foolish, surely, as someone with no knowledge in this area, to try and take on someone such as yourself who has researched the subject matter extensively.

Like everyone else (who you seem to be ignoring, I note) I'm happy to debate the personal responsibility angle though. That's the line I started this thread with and it's one I feel strongly about.

So, if it pleases you, we can ignore the health education comparison bit for a while and you can take on me (and everyone else) on the personal responsibility line to this news story.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Lunch successfully purchased from Polish sandwich van geezer.

Granary ham and coleslaw baguette, Thai sweet chilli sensations [god's own crisps] and a Star bar.

Shall I ring the government and ask them if that's okay?

 

[The Large One]

There are many on here (someone did mention it) about the concept of the 'Nanny State' (a lazy phrase, incidentally, created by a lazy media without a huge amount of meaning or value to it), and that some people don't like being told what to do.

The point is, we live in a society which, by and large, doesn't take responsibility for its actions and considerations - from food to health to smoking to alcoholism to re-cycling to dropping litter to clearing up dog shit. Some people look for a lead from the government about a whole range of issues, then complain when they are told stuff they don't like. 'It's a Nanny State...!'

Certain individuals did try and take the lead with this obesity, education and health issue. Jamie Oliver springs to mind. Irritating git though he can be, I thought his programmes on improving children's nutrition were superb. And while he had a certain amount of success, you had mothers actively going against his and various nutritionists' adivce and passing fish & chips through the school gates etc. I was appalled by that - to me that is tantamount to child abuse.

My point is that there are people who just do not want to be educated, and point-blank refuse to take heed. Admittedly, many now have sugar and salt cravings on account of their awful diet. However, we ALL (government and individuals) must take responsibility.

Incidentally, Nibble, where are the websites showing reports for those three countries' active health education programmes. I can't find them either.