[Brighton] New Churchill Square vaccination centre opens today....and closes due to protesters

[Guinness Boy]

Well this is fun..........

The account "Matt Penfold" will not be returning. There is no evidence of it being a second account. If such evidence arises the mods will look at it. If you have such evidence please report a post and don't carry on the binfest on a thread.

Back to vaccines please, and politely. The VAST majority of people in the UK reasonably accept vaccination works but also that it is a choice. In a way, defending them so aggressively plays right into the hands of the anti-vaxxers.

Who do you think it is Clamp? Come in spill the beans [emoji23][emoji120]


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[Audax]

I am going to refer this to in house experts [MENTION=33374]Audax[/MENTION] and [MENTION=2095]Commander[/MENTION] as they have considerable knowledge in this field. They are also pretty good at countering the misinformation campaign.
For my own part I would suggest with regard to pregnant women the relevant part of your quote is the part I have bolded. It is like anything; the pregnant woman weighs up the risk and ask herself what are the risks to her and the baby of the alternative ie catching Covid. There has been much talk about blood clots from the vaccine but in fact the risk has been shown to be smaller than from taking the contraceptive pill. Would you advocate banning this as well ? For my own part I have had a severe stroke (last year) and am susceptible to further strokes. I weighed up the stroke risk from the vaccine and the same from Covid itself. I took the vaccine. When people like yourself post on the internet you only ever mention the risks of taking the vaccine and never weigh it up with not doing so. It is ironic that you choose a thread about weird anti vaxx protesters to have another go at your disinformation campaign.

I've not stayed 100% up-to-date, but last I saw was that the "real world" evidence was pointing to the vaccines being safe in pregnancy, but that full scientific safety trials were still pending. However, due to the real world data they had finally received ethics approvals to go ahead with full scientific studies. Until those studies report results, it is likely that official guidance such as that you quoted will continue to err on the side of extreme caution.

One update I can share (no idea if others have here as yet, I've only bothered to read the posts immediately relevant to what I've quoted above) is that in relation to the blood clots issue from the vaccines (yes - worth noting that the mRNA vaccines are also showing slightly elevated risk, not just the AZ vaccine) is that it has now been clearly shown that the risk of blood clots from getting Covid when unvaccinated are *massively* higher than the risks from the vaccines.

There's also some "risk levels" information from the Australian Academy of Science comparing relative risk of death of the AZ vaccine vs other potential causes of death. It was produced to help combat AZ vaccine hesitancy in Australia.

Risk of death after catching Covid 19 - roughly 42,000 per million cases
Risk of death following AZ vaccine - roughly 1 per million
Risk of death from being hit by lightning - roughly 2 per million (they provided some other comparisons as well, but not worth listing them all).

I'm happy for others to make their own risk assessments, but IMO the evidence is clear and is getting clearer as time goes on: the risk of *not* having the covid vaccine is far greater than the risk of having it. In particular for the AZ vaccine, which is based on tried-and-tested vaccine technology: we know that the base ingredients of the vaccine are safe (they've been in use for an awfully long time across things like Flu jabs), the only real question marks were over whether this technology would work and be safe for Covid-type viruses. So far, the answer is yes. It's not surprising that the vaccine produces an elevated risk of blood clotting, because the virus it is designed to combat also produces that outcome. The key thing is that the vaccine substantially reduces that risk.

 

[Chicken Run]

Sorry I read Clamp’s post and replied, I’ve only just seen yours suggesting there is no evidence of this character having another account.

As you were.


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[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I've not stayed 100% up-to-date, but last I saw was that the "real world" evidence was pointing to the vaccines being safe in pregnancy, but that full scientific safety trials were still pending. However, due to the real world data they had finally received ethics approvals to go ahead with full scientific studies. Until those studies report results, it is likely that official guidance such as that you quoted will continue to err on the side of extreme caution.

One update I can share (no idea if others have here as yet, I've only bothered to read the posts immediately relevant to what I've quoted above) is that in relation to the blood clots issue from the vaccines (yes - worth noting that the mRNA vaccines are also showing slightly elevated risk, not just the AZ vaccine) is that it has now been clearly shown that the risk of blood clots from getting Covid when unvaccinated are *massively* higher than the risks from the vaccines.

There's also some "risk levels" information from the Australian Academy of Science comparing relative risk of death of the AZ vaccine vs other potential causes of death. It was produced to help combat AZ vaccine hesitancy in Australia.

Risk of death after catching Covid 19 - roughly 42,000 per million cases
Risk of death following AZ vaccine - roughly 1 per million
Risk of death from being hit by lightning - roughly 2 per million (they provided some other comparisons as well, but not worth listing them all).

I'm happy for others to make their own risk assessments, but IMO the evidence is clear and is getting clearer as time goes on: the risk of *not* having the covid vaccine is far greater than the risk of having it. In particular for the AZ vaccine, which is based on tried-and-tested vaccine technology: we know that the base ingredients of the vaccine are safe (they've been in use for an awfully long time across things like Flu jabs), the only real question marks were over whether this technology would work and be safe for Covid-type viruses. So far, the answer is yes. It's not surprising that the vaccine produces an elevated risk of blood clotting, because the virus it is designed to combat also produces that outcome. The key thing is that the vaccine substantially reduces that risk.

Superb post

 

[El Presidente]

Its incredible how cross people are getting when someone expresses a different view.

I look forward to you putting forward the merits of paedophilia as a different view. You might get a few cross reactions.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I've not stayed 100% up-to-date, but last I saw was that the "real world" evidence was pointing to the vaccines being safe in pregnancy, but that full scientific safety trials were still pending. However, due to the real world data they had finally received ethics approvals to go ahead with full scientific studies. Until those studies report results, it is likely that official guidance such as that you quoted will continue to err on the side of extreme caution.

One update I can share (no idea if others have here as yet, I've only bothered to read the posts immediately relevant to what I've quoted above) is that in relation to the blood clots issue from the vaccines (yes - worth noting that the mRNA vaccines are also showing slightly elevated risk, not just the AZ vaccine) is that it has now been clearly shown that the risk of blood clots from getting Covid when unvaccinated are *massively* higher than the risks from the vaccines.

There's also some "risk levels" information from the Australian Academy of Science comparing relative risk of death of the AZ vaccine vs other potential causes of death. It was produced to help combat AZ vaccine hesitancy in Australia.

Risk of death after catching Covid 19 - roughly 42,000 per million cases
Risk of death following AZ vaccine - roughly 1 per million
Risk of death from being hit by lightning - roughly 2 per million (they provided some other comparisons as well, but not worth listing them all).

I'm happy for others to make their own risk assessments, but IMO the evidence is clear and is getting clearer as time goes on: the risk of *not* having the covid vaccine is far greater than the risk of having it. In particular for the AZ vaccine, which is based on tried-and-tested vaccine technology: we know that the base ingredients of the vaccine are safe (they've been in use for an awfully long time across things like Flu jabs), the only real question marks were over whether this technology would work and be safe for Covid-type viruses. So far, the answer is yes. It's not surprising that the vaccine produces an elevated risk of blood clotting, because the virus it is designed to combat also produces that outcome. The key thing is that the vaccine substantially reduces that risk.

Two of my daughters are pregnant, one who also a teacher was advised not to have the vaccine, the other had her first prior to knowing she was pregnant. She is holding off having the second especially as she's having a few complications.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Two of my daughters are pregnant, one who also a teacher was advised not to have the vaccine, the other had her first prior to knowing she was pregnant. She is holding off having the second especially as she's having a few complications.

That’s interesting. Advised by whom ?

 

[Audax]

Two of my daughters are pregnant, one who also a teacher was advised not to have the vaccine, the other had her first prior to knowing she was pregnant. She is holding off having the second especially as she's having a few complications.

Advised when, and by who? I've heard (from a source I trust 100%) that there's been some problems with a) dissemination of updated advice and b) staff forgetting about the updates even if they have seen them and continuing to issue old, outdated, advice. Layer on the top of that that the official guidance is erring on the side of caution, and that some NHS staff will themselves instinctively err on the side of caution (layering on top of the cautious approach already being taken) and it becomes easy to see where the advice being given on the frontline can, in some cases, be erroneously overly cautious.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Advised when, and by who? I've heard (from a source I trust 100%) that there's been some problems with a) dissemination of updated advice and b) staff forgetting about the updates even if they have seen them and continuing to issue old, outdated, advice. Layer on the top of that that the official guidance is erring on the side of caution, and that some NHS staff will themselves instinctively err on the side of caution (layering on top of the cautious approach already being taken) and it becomes easy to see where the advice being given on the frontline can, in some cases, be erroneously overly cautious.

Several weeks ago Sheila Fogherty on LBC devoted one of her phone ins to this issue. The starting point was the high numbers of unvaccinated pregnant women in A and E, having contracted Covid. Presumably at that point the emphasis was predominately on vaccine risk. I would hope that is being counter balanced by the risk of remaining unvaccinated.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

That’s interesting. Advised by whom ?

Advised when, and by who? I've heard (from a source I trust 100%) that there's been some problems with a) dissemination of updated advice and b) staff forgetting about the updates even if they have seen them and continuing to issue old, outdated, advice. Layer on the top of that that the official guidance is erring on the side of caution, and that some NHS staff will themselves instinctively err on the side of caution (layering on top of the cautious approach already being taken) and it becomes easy to see where the advice being given on the frontline can, in some cases, be erroneously overly cautious.

Both advised at their antenatal (or is prenatal?) appointments, ones in Haywards Heath, the other Greenwich so in very different areas.

I've spoken to both about it, but who am I to advise?

Both can wait to be vaccinated.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Risk of death after catching Covid 19 - roughly 42,000 per million cases
Risk of death following AZ vaccine - roughly 1 per million
Risk of death from being hit by lightning - roughly 2 per million (they provided some other comparisons as well, but not worth listing them all).

I'm happy for others to make their own risk assessments, but IMO the evidence is clear and is getting clearer as time goes on: the risk of *not* having the covid vaccine is far greater than the risk of having it. In particular for the AZ vaccine, which is based on tried-and-tested vaccine technology: we know that the base ingredients of the vaccine are safe (they've been in use for an awfully long time across things like Flu jabs), the only real question marks were over whether this technology would work and be safe for Covid-type viruses. So far, the answer is yes. It's not surprising that the vaccine produces an elevated risk of blood clotting, because the virus it is designed to combat also produces that outcome. The key thing is that the vaccine substantially reduces that risk.

The problem with Covid is that the effects are so different depending on age and body type (and probably millions of factors we don't know about yet). With symptoms ranging from nothing at all to certain death and lots of things in between it's difficult to know what to do.

Your risk of death figures presumably include every age group, but they change hugely between an 18 year old and an 80 year old. I think this is why the debates get so heated, because the risk is so different for different people.

As you say everyone needs to make their own risk assessment, I think some people on NSC have received unnecessary abuse for saying they haven't had the vaccine or aren't wearing a mask.

Two of my daughters are pregnant, one who also a teacher was advised not to have the vaccine, the other had her first prior to knowing she was pregnant. She is holding off having the second especially as she's having a few complications.

If my missus was pregnant I would be wary of her having both doses. I felt absolutely terrible after my 2nd pfizer shot - worst headache I've ever had and heart racing for a few hours in the night the evening after to the point I couldn't sleep for 4 hours, hot and cold sweats. I wasn't right for a couple of weeks and took two days off work the week after because I couldn't get out of bed. I know it's safe in terms of death but there are definitely some potent side effects for some people. My 20yo niece was really ill after one of the AZ jabs

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

You are a bit too quick to draw others into the Ben Garfield wormhole. I haven’t seen anybody doing a similar disservice to the truth as that account. Piltdown Man is a decent poster with personal experience of facing these issues. HWT is a scientist and is merely giving his opinion. It is one backed by his expertise. Like a few others on here I do wonder whether you are a second account. The manner in which you attacked London Irish and insulted his parents was way over the top for someone without an axe to grind. In summary, it would be easier for people to understand where you are coming from if you showed the context of what I am sure is many thousands of previous posts. In the absence of this you will encounter suspicion even if doing the right thing as in exposing the fraudulent Ben Garfield account.

Thank you

 

[Audax]

Both advised at their antenatal appointments, ones in Haywards Heath, the other Greenwich so in very different areas.

I've spoken to both about it, but who am I to advise?

Both can wait to be vaccinated.

My advice would be that if they aren't comfortable receiving the vaccine, then don't get it (until they see something that suggests they should). BUT:

1. They should be making that decision aware of the potential risks associated with catching covid while pregnant. It's associated with elevated risk of miscarriage in the first trimester, elevated risk of stillbirth, etc. One potential symptom of covid - the fever - is also a well known cause of problems for unborn babies - if it doesn't cause miscarry it's also known to cause brain damage and other abnormalities (which is why pregnant women are usually advised to avoid going anywhere near anyone who has scarlet fever or other fever-causing illnesses).

2. If they still decide to not get vaccinated, then they need to manage the risk they are taking. What can they do in their lives to minimise the risk of catching covid? And it's not just themselves - it's their families as well, as the home is a prime location for covid transmission (eg husband or child brings it home having caught it elsewhere).

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My advice would be that if they aren't comfortable receiving the vaccine, then don't get it (until they see something that suggests they should). BUT:

1. They should be making that decision aware of the potential risks associated with catching covid while pregnant. It's associated with elevated risk of miscarriage in the first trimester, elevated risk of stillbirth, etc. One potential symptom of covid - the fever - is also a well known cause of problems for unborn babies - if it doesn't cause miscarry it's also known to cause brain damage and other abnormalities (which is why pregnant women are usually advised to avoid going anywhere near anyone who has scarlet fever or other fever-causing illnesses).

2. If they still decide to not get vaccinated, then they need to manage the risk they are taking. What can they do in their lives to minimise the risk of catching covid? And it's not just themselves - it's their families as well, as the home is a prime location for covid transmission (eg husband or child brings it home having caught it elsewhere).

Both are taking great care, one it's her third child so has two just going back to school, the other is a teacher and it's her first, she is doing daily lateral flow tests. As she is special needs teacher she is only meeting a few children at a time. Still an obvious risk though.

I should add due to my wife's condition we have only seen our daughters twice in two years both times at a distance.

 

[dadams2k11]

Just been told today that if your not vaccinated, then you either need to get vaccinated or you can't work (Sacked?). This is a NHS trust and I think this will be for all NHS staff workers.

We have a great technician who is the go to guy and very valuable as a resource who is totally against the Vaccine and he is refusing to have it. Will be interesting to see how this plays out as he is the glue and very talented at his job.

I'm double vaccinated so no issues for me but I can see a whole can of worms being opened.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Well you are just a rude ****. Have you tried not being such an ********?

That's rich coming from you!

Edit too late, as already banned. Oh well.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Just been told today that if your not vaccinated, then you either need to get vaccinated or you can't work (Sacked?). This is a NHS trust and I think this will be for all NHS staff workers.

We have a great technician who is the go to guy and very valuable as a resource who is totally against the Vaccine and he is refusing to have it. Will be interesting to see how this plays out as he is the glue and very talented at his job.

I'm double vaccinated so no issues for me but I can see a whole can of worms being opened.

Yes it will be happening at many companies. Oddly just as I was reading your post I got a calendar invite to a meeting to discuss vaccines within our company. I'm part of the Colleague Engagement Group, it's between senior management, managers (me) and staff, I feedback next week their proposal.

 

[dadams2k11]

Yes it will be happening at many companies. Oddly just as I was reading your post I got a calendar invite to a meeting to discuss vaccines within our company. I'm part of the Colleague Engagement Group, it's between senior management, managers (me) and staff, I feedback next week their proposal.

I think you're correct that this will become a requirement to work.

I do feel for those that will be backed into a corner though and not allowed to make their own choice.

Like I said, I can see a few can of worms being open.

 

[Audax]

The problem with Covid is that the effects are so different depending on age and body type (and probably millions of factors we don't know about yet). With symptoms ranging from nothing at all to certain death and lots of things in between it's difficult to know what to do.

Your risk of death figures presumably include every age group, but they change hugely between an 18 year old and an 80 year old. I think this is why the debates get so heated, because the risk is so different for different people.

As you say everyone needs to make their own risk assessment, I think some people on NSC have received unnecessary abuse for saying they haven't had the vaccine or aren't wearing a mask.

Yep, all very true. Which is why here in the UK the younger age groups were offered the option of not having the AZ vaccine and getting Pfizer instead (although, as I noted in another post, it turns out that Pfizer elevates blood clot risk as well). Given current infection rates, I would assume that the balance of risk would currently point to having the AZ vaccine as being a lower risk option in all age groups again - especially in those areas with particularly high

On the flipside, I believe the risk of developing "long covid" is higher in the younger age groups, and for many that is a long-term debilitating illness - and you can develop long covid even if your original covid infection was very minor.

 

[The Clamp]

Why the mall? Did they protest the BC at all. They’ve been pumping an unsuspecting public full of alien sex hormones and Windows 14 for the thick end of a year.
Maybe these nitwits only notice things when they’re near McDonalds or a Hollister?