McGhee calls for patience - again

[smudge]

Who were in this clique?

 

[110%]

The thing I don’t get and I may just be being naive here is that, according to MM we are struggling because the team is young and inexperienced. Okay, fair enough, so why has the situation been allowed to get like this. Yes, I know we’ve been after players and the falmer/withdean issues get trotted out whenever we don’t sign anyone but the likes of Coppell and Taylor in the past have brought in loan players of some experience/quality whilst we’ve been at withdean.

Taylor brought in Junior Lewis and he was a revelation in as much as our midfield suddenly started supporting the forwards. After the disastrous Hinshelwood reign Coppell came in and said we wouldn’t stay up playing kids and went out and brought in more experienced players and we nearly survived. MM must known this and that why he has been trying to get players in for 2 years. But without the success that his predecessor had.

Are we less attractive to potential signings - do we have less money than 2-3 years ago? I don’t think we can necessarily continue to trot out the facilities at withdean as an excuse as the likes of Taylor and Coppell overcame them when signing players.

I guess it’s probably a combination of things and some of the blame probably does lie with MM in terms of his man management. I also wonder whether it’s a question of reputation - would the likes of Sidwell or Rodger have signed for us if MM had been in charge. I don’t know but I suspect not. McShane did sign for us under MM. Was that luck or can MM take some credit?

The problem now is that we appear to be in free fall and that in turn will make players think twice about joining us. I think Les is right, another couple of games without a win and the calls for MM sacking will get even louder. I suspect DK might remain deaf to them a little while longer though.

 

[Jim in the West]

I think the answers are fairly clear:

1. We have less money now than in the Adams/Taylor/Coppell eras (Falmer; lower season ticket sales, etc).
2. We have a long term plan to bring through the youth.
3. Because of the lack of money we have had to sell some of our better players, and not been able to acquire the high calibre of replacements which we would otherwise have done.
4. As a result, the youngsters are being blooded earlier.

The consequence is:

1. Some upside - players like Lynch and Cox are emerging
2. Some downside - we're not winning as many games as we'd like.

It must be remarkably difficult to manage in the current situation. There are, I'm sure, plenty of managers in the Premiership and Championship who would struggle with the hand that McGhee has been dealt. However, I think most of us believe there ARE some managers out there who would do a better job - who are better motivators/better tacticians/better man-managers.

Whether we can attract that individual is questionable. Personally I believe that Wilkins could be that person, but I have to admit that it would be a helluva risk.

 

[Bromley shrimp]

The thing I don’t get and I may just be being naive here is that, according to MM we are struggling because the team is young and inexperienced. Okay, fair enough, so why has the situation been allowed to get like this. Yes, I know we’ve been after players and the falmer/withdean issues get trotted out whenever we don’t sign anyone but the likes of Coppell and Taylor in the past have brought in loan players of some experience/quality whilst we’ve been at withdean.

Taylor brought in Junior Lewis and he was a revelation in as much as our midfield suddenly started supporting the forwards. After the disastrous Hinshelwood reign Coppell came in and said we wouldn’t stay up playing kids and went out and brought in more experienced players and we nearly survived. MM must known this and that why he has been trying to get players in for 2 years. But without the success that his predecessor had.

Are we less attractive to potential signings - do we have less money than 2-3 years ago? I don’t think we can necessarily continue to trot out the facilities at withdean as an excuse as the likes of Taylor and Coppell overcame them when signing players.

I guess it’s probably a combination of things and some of the blame probably does lie with MM in terms of his man management. I also wonder whether it’s a question of reputation - would the likes of Sidwell or Rodger have signed for us if MM had been in charge. I don’t know but I suspect not. McShane did sign for us under MM. Was that luck or can MM take some credit?

The problem now is that we appear to be in free fall and that in turn will make players think twice about joining us. I think Les is right, another couple of games without a win and the calls for MM sacking will get even louder. I suspect DK might remain deaf to them a little while longer though.

Why indeed has the situation been allowed to develop? You hit the nail on the head about several points.

The truth is the Withdean Stadium is now bigger, so there's more potential than the Adams/Coppel/Taylor eras, but the extra people theoretically available to come and watch have now been mugged off as the club continues to be run so amateurashly with a singular lack of investment, in spite of good fees for players released having been obtained. The "kid" thing is just fantasy land and soon the result of this flawed "on the cheap" policy will be that we have once again our greatest ever fight for league survival on our hands, against which the fight for Falmer will pale to the point of insignificance.

 

[Schrödinger's Toad]

1. We have less money now than in the Adams/Taylor/Coppell eras (Falmer; lower season ticket sales, etc).

Do we?

We bid £150k for a player last month, and paid similar fees for Turienzo and CKR. I can't recall any other manager being given as much money as McGhee has had.

 

[London Irish]

Do we?

We bid £150k for a player last month, and paid similar fees for Turienzo and CKR. I can't recall any other manager being given as much money as McGhee has had.

Except wages are the key determinant of a club's spending power. You should check your facts a little better if you think we spent £150k on a transfer fee for CKR.

 

[British Bulldog]

Except wages are the key determinant of a club's spending power.

If we can match the wages of a player like Dichio we cant be that hard up.

 

[London Irish]

As soon as it was obvious that issues were arising trying to rectify them would have been a plan. Or maybe it was because players did not feel included and dissent appears.

Try and corner me all you want, at the end of the day it was obvious a clique of players were causing issues last season and the club did the correct thing moving the ring leaders on, but could this have been avoided if the management had taken care of it at its beginning?

I'm not trying to corner and I'm just asking you look at the situation fairly and ask what McGhee could have done with patently disruptive and immature players. I'm not surprised you have no concrete answer because the reality is McGhee tried everything, including the quite incredible move of making Leon Knight the skipper. Yet you still come out with stuff like the "players did not feel included". Fair critics would acknowledge a difficult situation, unfair ones will simply use it in a fairly unprincipled manner as a stick to beat McGhee with.

 

[London Irish]

If we can match the wages of a player like Dichio we cant be that hard up.

But the thing is, the board may have been willing to go out on a limb and risk big money for an acknowledged performer like Dichio. Do you really think they offered Ibhere that money?

 

[British Bulldog]

But the thing is, the board may have been willing to go out on a limb and risk big money for an acknowledged performer like Dichio. Do you really think they offered Ibhere that money?

They offered £100,000 For Ibhere. If we're as skint as we say thats big money. It's all very well DK going on the fans forum saying McGhee has less money than Adams/Coppell/Taylor, but with the exception of Zamora I dont recall them having the facility to put in 6 figure bids & go after players like Dichio/ shipperly like McGhee has.

 

[London Irish]

They offered £100,000 For Ibhere. If we're as skint as we say thats big money. It's all very well DK going on the fans forum saying McGhee has less money than Adams/Coppell/Taylor, but with the exception of Zamora I dont recall them having the facility to put in 6 figure bids & go after players like Dichio/ shipperly like McGhee has.

You've once again diverted the subject to transfer fees, when wages indicate the key spending power of a club. Notice you dodged the question about whether you think we offered Ibhere anywhere near Dichio's wages. Course we didn't, they would have been similar-ish to his Orient ones and that's what he's still there.

I don't mind discussing transfer fees of course, given that McGhee has brought nearly 3 million into the club to help it survive. How much did Adams, Taylor and Coppell bring in, nowhere near the amount of McGhee even if you combine all of them.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Any chance the club will start playing "Patience" by Guns N Roses when the team runs out onto the pitch for home matches?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He can have my patience. It's fully tested.

 

[110%]

Okay, so wages are as big a factor as transfer fees, I guess these days we all know that. But, the thing I still don't get is that the likes of Taylor and Coppell brought in loan signings that gave us quality and/or experience.

The club has money available (£100K) yet we can't even get loan signings in of the quality we were getting a few years ago, so I don't think money can necessarily be the only factor. Okay, I know loan signings can only ever be a short term fix and we do need to keep the kids coming through but my point is that we have been trying to get loan signings in for the last couple of years yet now can't seem to get them. Why? Is MM a factor? Have the board said that the £100K is only for a permanent signing not loans?

I have no answers only questions!

 

[supaseagull]

I don't mind discussing transfer fees of course, given that McGhee has brought nearly 3 million into the club to help it survive. How much did Adams, Taylor and Coppell bring in, nowhere near the amount of McGhee even if you combine all of them.

Sorry LI, can't agree with you there - Mcghee has not bought £3mil into the club...Dick Knight has bought £3mil into the club - he's the one that sold the players not McGhee.

The only credit you can really give to Mcghee is for Currie & Virgo. Although even he will say that Currie was a gamble.

 

[British Bulldog]

You've once again diverted the subject to transfer fees, when wages indicate the key spending power of a club. Notice you dodged the question about whether you think we offered Ibhere anywhere near Dichio's wages. Course we didn't, they would have been similar-ish to his Orient ones and that's what he's still there.

I don't mind discussing transfer fees of course, given that McGhee has brought nearly 3 million into the club to help it survive. How much did Adams, Taylor and Coppell bring in, nowhere near the amount of McGhee even if you combine all of them.

Are'nt transfer fee's & wages all part of the same budget? If we're gonna offer £100k for Ibhere then we're gonna offer him at least a 2 yr contract, probably better than he's on at Orient. £100k plus 2 year contract would roughly add up to the 1 yr contract we'd have offered Dichio who was a free transfer. So yeah I expect we did offer the same money.

McGhee bringing in £3million. Those deals were sorted by DK, Thats his job. And lets not forget the only Mcghee player we made a profit on was Currie. The rest were signed by other managers or came through the youth ranks.

 

[itszamora]

For those saying there's not much McGhee could have done about this so-called 'clique' of players developing and causing trouble, it might be worth noting that he signed all but one of said clique.

 

[British Bulldog]

For those saying there's not much McGhee could have done about this so-called 'clique' of players developing and causing trouble, it might be worth noting that he signed all but one of said clique.

Well said Samparish.

 

[London Irish]

Okay, so wages are as big a factor as transfer fees, I guess these days we all know that. But, the thing I still don't get is that the likes of Taylor and Coppell brought in loan signings that gave us quality and/or experience.

Mark Yeates
Trevor Benjamin (the last bit of decent football any manager got out of him)
Chris Iwelumo came initially on loan
Paul McShane
Wayne Henderson
Gifton Noel-Williams

 

[London Irish]

Sorry LI, can't agree with you there - Mcghee has not bought £3mil into the club...Dick Knight has bought £3mil into the club - he's the one that sold the players not McGhee.

A great example of the double standards of NSC these days, the credit for selling those players goes to Dick Knight, the blame for not signing replacements goes to McGhee.

McGhee's revival of Virgo's career was not down to Dick Knight, otherwise Virgo wouldn't have been halfway out the door under Coppell. You just have to look at who we got the £1.5m from for Virgo, Knight contact or McGhee contact do you reckon then?