Massive Attack's statement re: Riots....

[BadFish]

You arrogant tosser, I am sick and tired of clueless apologist wankers like you, have you personally suffered at the actions of these scum ? When you have let me know otherwise f*** off you brainless twat.

I cannot see any reason for all this personal abuse. Posts reported and Ignore feature used. Both for the first time!

 

[brunswick]

If the riots were centered around smashing up and looting banks and government offices, then yes, this statement may explain it. But they weren't.

How can someone protest against small businesses closing down, by burning down small businesses?

The statement may explain genuine grievances that people hold against government, banks etc etc. But it does not in anyway explain the riots this week.

i disagree, it is a solid explanation. How would you explain it then? please do not say "mindless scum" etc.

 

[brunswick]

insults and personal abuse are a resort of those who lack the intellect to debate fully and openly. imagine a government were the parties all swore abuse at eachother when they disagreed....lol.

 

[Captain Haddock]

Disagree with the statement. There are certainly some parallels you could draw but the riots were NOT ostensibly political...they were cultural: 'broken Britain', the underclass, erosion of parental responsibility and the general 'must have best and must have now' mentality & general pampering of trainee criminals with delusions of oppression bit hugely bad attitudes; these are the real issues.

So where it is political it is in respect of law and order & crime and punishment, not economics....these 'yoofs' have no respect, work ethic or character.

 

[El Presidente]

Can I remind everyone of Bozza's notice in relation to discussion of this issue.

Abuse will not be tolerated, neither will comments supporting bigotry or racism of any type.

One ban has already resulted from this thread, I trust it will be the last.

 

[beorhthelm]

People do not just get born, grow up, and decide to smash things up.....never.....some energy and force somewhere needs to create the feelings frustration/helplessness/oppression.

so this is down to bad karma/negative energy? thats all very spiritual, but i doubt it will help us solve anything meaningfull. some kids just want stuff they havent got. innit.

I think you are putting words in a lot of peoples mouths here, making a lot of assumptions and jumping to many conclusions.

really? the web, papers and news reports are full of people excusing and justifying the events. right there in the statement in the OP, someone blames bankers and making points about overseas intervention, neither of which have anything to do with the events. to do so ignores so many deeper rooted issue. do they explain how one rioters sence of anger at their poverty, education, upbringing justifies a shopkeeper's livlyhood being destroyed or residents homes being burnt down? a man was killed because he tried to put out a fire ffs, but we are supposed to accept this as a consequence of macro-economics?

 

[Guy Fawkes]

The main reason it happened is because they thought they could nick what they wanted with little fear of being arrested & knowing that if they were arrested the punishment would be so lenient that it didn't deter them. These "people" have no respect for the police or any form of authority as they've been brought up in an age where their parents & teachers were unable to discipline them. They believe it is their "right" to have an expensive lifestyle but don't expect to ever do a hard day's work. If there were no jobs as people are claiming why do I meet so many Eastern Europeans working hard in this country? These "people" don't want to work & have no interest in contributing to society & have no sense of responsibility. Until we stop showering benefits on people who have never done a day's work in their lives this will continue but there is no incentive to take a low paid job as the benefits system is so generous. Perhaps we could spend some of the billions spent on benefits on building more prisons so we can give these "people" the long sentences they deserve.

Why not go the whole hog and build Workhouses instead? If you are unemployed you have to go to one of them in order to survive - I'd bet most of those would suddenly take any other job rather than going to one of them.

The vast majority of unemployed are not or have not got criminal intentions so to build prisons for them instead of providing a safety net in society is a bit extreme to say the least. Part of the problem occurs when it is not financially beneficial to work and you are better off on benefits, however it isn't easy to solve as life is expensive (rent, food etc) increase the minimum wage and everyones costs go up so benefits would have to increase too and would make our goods and services less competitive internationally reducing demand. Cut benefits could lead to real poverty for vulnerable members of society who are trapped in the benefits system due to a lack of jobs in their area, high cost of living (like high rents) etc.

 

[KZNSeagull]

i disagree, it is a solid explanation. How would you explain it then? please do not say "mindless scum" etc.

The cause of these riots can be blamed on all sorts of things.

The point I am making is that it is highly illogical to me to release a statement blaming banks and governments as the cause of the riots, when the riots did not attack those institutions (other than the police). It is as illogical as the looters interviewed on Sky News yesterday saying that they rioted because of the "people in Canary Wharf". So why burn down an independant furniture store in Croydon if you are actually attacking the institutions in Canary Wharf?

 

[beorhthelm]

So why burn down an independant furniture store in Croydon if you are actually attacking the institutions in Canary Wharf?

exactly. the local shops and homes looted or burnt would be the opposite of everything the banks respresent.

 

[brunswick]

so this is down to bad karma/negative energy? thats all very spiritual, but i doubt it will help us solve anything meaningfull. some kids just want stuff they havent got. innit.

more science really - consciousness sourced energy and force are the 'cause' of anything that manifests (matter moving).

e.g. in this case...the policies of the gov, and way the system is stacked got the kiddies frustrated.


...and yes, we could just say kids want stuff and close the thread, but this again is the way the system is stacked via its tentacles of materialism and status.

 

[beorhthelm]

I think you are putting words in a lot of peoples mouths here, making a lot of assumptions and jumping to many conclusions.

e.g. in this case...the policies of the gov, and way the system is stacked got the kiddies frustrated.

see Badfish, a fine example of trying to justify the kid's actions: they are just frustrated at the government. not my words or assumption.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's all well and good, but it wasnt small business owners rioting, it was small business owners getting their shops smashed in by morons.

 

[pork pie]

...and i fully agree...

"In context with the complicit support of the government, the banks looted the nation’s wealth while destroying countless small businesses and brought the whole economy to its knees in a covert, clean manner, rather like organised crime.

Our reaction was to march and wave banners and then bail them out. These kids would have to riot and steal every night for a year to run up a bill equivalent to the value of non-paid tax big business has ‘avoided’ out of the economy this year alone.

They may not articulate their grievances like the politicians that condemn them but this is absolutely political. As for the ‘mindless violence’… is there anything more mindless than the British taxpayer quietly paying back the debts of others while contributing bullets to conflicts that we have absolutely no understanding of?

It’s mad, sad and scary when we have to take to the streets to defend our homes and businesses from angry thieving kids, but where are the police and what justice is ever done when the mob is dressed in pin stripe."

Hopefully they will get prosecuted for incitement!

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

I find brunswick's comments quite naive. While I agree on the way this country has been swindled by banks and money makers he needs to put Massive Attack's comments into perspective. MA are a commercial band who raise their own profile by making comments such as the ones they have made with their target audience. This then is a marketing drive... just the same as any other commercial business would do. If they were serrious then I would expect from intelligent people like MA they could make the links between these riots and the rape of this country much more concrete...something that much more knowledgable people have failed to do.

The riots should not be surprise to anyone but to think that it is purely a protest at the money makers who are taking the country down the drain is naive at best, criminal at worst as it fails to address the issues. I once attended a Micheal Moore show and as a lifelong socialist was horrified when students who attended the show started quoting Marx at Moore to support his opinions. Naivety has far too often been the curse of the left. Let's stop twistingevents to suit our agenda and see things for what they are.

 

[brunswick]

I find brunswick's comments quite naive. While I agree on the way this country has been swindled by banks and money makers he needs to put Massive Attack's comments into perspective. MA are a commercial band who raise their own profile by making comments such as the ones they have made with their target audience. This then is a marketing drive... just the same as any other commercial business would do. If they were serrious then I would expect from intelligent people like MA they could make the links between these riots and the rape of this country much more concrete...something that much more knowledgable people have failed to do.

The riots should not be surprise to anyone but to think that it is purely a protest at the money makers who are taking the country down the drain is naive at best, criminal at worst as it fails to address the issues. I once attended a Micheal Moore show and as a lifelong socialist was horrified when students who attended the show started quoting Marx at Moore to support his opinions. Naivety has far too often been the curse of the left. Let's stop twistingevents to suit our agenda and see things for what they are.

MA lived in a hard area and i do not think for one minute this is a marketing drive - you obviously never listened to much of their stuff.

if you think these "rioters" are just mindless criminals then i would say it is you who is naive. (again i dont condone their actions, but understand). A gasket has to go off somewhere in the broken system, and usually gaskets first blow from the underclass.

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

MA lived in a hard area and i do not think for one minute this is a marketing drive - you obviously never listened to much of their stuff.

if you think these "rioters" are just mindless criminals then i would say it is you who is naive. (again i dont condone their actions, but understand). A gasket has to go off somewhere in the broken system, and usually gaskets first blow from the underclass.

Not all the rioters are mindless criminals but i think many are misguided. This was never going to be an answer it was always likely to make things worse. And sorry no i do not believe MA... their statement is weak, unclear and makes no concrete links. i worked in marketing and it has marketing spiel written all over it. I know MAs background and have previosuly applauded them.. this is massively dissappointing. (no pun)

 

[drew]

Why not go the whole hog and build Workhouses instead? If you are unemployed you have to go to one of them in order to survive - I'd bet most of those would suddenly take any other job rather than going to one of them.

The vast majority of unemployed are not or have not got criminal intentions so to build prisons for them instead of providing a safety net in society is a bit extreme to say the least. Part of the problem occurs when it is not financially beneficial to work and you are better off on benefits, however it isn't easy to solve as life is expensive (rent, food etc) increase the minimum wage and everyones costs go up so benefits would have to increase too and would make our goods and services less competitive internationally reducing demand. Cut benefits could lead to real poverty for vulnerable members of society who are trapped in the benefits system due to a lack of jobs in their area, high cost of living (like high rents) etc.

Jumping to some big assumptions. Where does he say that every unemployed person should be locked up? As for the video clips, the police stop and search one person and then the guy with the camera invites trouble for himself. Same with the those in the second square. The police arrest one and then they all try to walk towards the gate. Of course the police are going to prevent them coming out. Was that the only exit from the park? Ok for the demonstrators to push up to the police but when the police put them hands up to stop them it suddenly becomes assault. Laughable.

 

[shellsuit]

Can I remind everyone of Bozza's notice in relation to discussion of this issue.

Abuse will not be tolerated, neither will comments supporting bigotry or racism of any type.

One ban has already resulted from this thread, I trust it will be the last.

was that person banned after a warning or just banned outright? i know you threatened me in a private message with a ban without warning because you didnt like my viewpoint "I will simply ban you without explanation" is this something that members can expect from you if they dont agree with your personal view on the riots?

 

[Eggmundo]

comments like this make you worse than those who were on the streets.

You missed out the bit where i said "there is a percentage that would be". I simply highlighted the impracticality of the petition.

 

[El Presidente]

was that person banned after a warning or just banned outright? i know you threatened me in a private message with a ban without warning because you didnt like my viewpoint "I will simply ban you without explanation" is this something that members can expect from you if they dont agree with your personal view on the riots?

Where did I say I didn't like your viewpoint?

There were complaints to the mods about one of your posts, it just so happened that I was on duty when the complaint came through.

Bozza had already asked people to debate rather than abuse each other, and to avoid bringing race into the matter, specifically because NSC was closed relatively recently due to a race related complaint about the board.

You chose to ignore that request.