Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[Mellotron]

Behavioral science.

Have you ever seen those adverts for sensodyne toothpaste?

The logic goes something like this, "I've been using sensodyne toothpaste, and I haven't been having any sensitivity. Guess I don't need to use sensodyne toothpaste..."

In this context it would go something like this, "We've stopped going out, stopped social gatherings, yet there is no widespread infection taking place, guess we can all go back to normal now then..."

In a perverse kind of way, you will need the spread to increase and you will need people to see a need for the action, before you take it, otherwise people will be half arsed about it, which is the last thing you want. You do it as late as possible, for as short a time as possible, and it is most effective. If you do it as early as possible, for as long as possible, it is least effective.

Once you understand that this is the logic, you also realize that actually deciding for yourself to start restricting your movements and social interactions would actually be a good idea on an individual level, even if giving that advice on a community level would risk it's overall effectiveness.

Totally agree with the underlying psychology of this.

 

[The Clamp]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....e-coronavirus-is-bringing-out-the-worst-in-us

 

[Solid at the back]

Behavioral science.

Have you ever seen those adverts for sensodyne toothpaste?

The logic goes something like this, "I've been using sensodyne toothpaste, and I haven't been having any sensitivity. Guess I don't need to use sensodyne toothpaste..."

In this context it would go something like this, "We've stopped going out, stopped social gatherings, yet there is no widespread infection taking place, guess we can all go back to normal now then..."

In a perverse kind of way, you will need the spread to increase and you will need people to see a need for the action, before you take it, otherwise people will be half arsed about it, which is the last thing you want. You do it as late as possible, for as short a time as possible, and it is most effective. If you do it as early as possible, for as long as possible, it is least effective.

Once you understand that this is the logic, you also realize that actually deciding for yourself to start restricting your movements and social interactions would actually be a good idea on an individual level, even if giving that advice on a community level would risk it's overall effectiveness.

Good post

 

[Bozza]

In a perverse kind of way, you will need the spread to increase and you will need people to see a need for the action, before you take it, otherwise people will be half arsed about it, which is the last thing you want. You do it as late as possible, for as short a time as possible, and it is most effective. If you do it as early as possible, for as long as possible, it is least effective.

And, frankly, if I am going to catch this m, I’d choose to catch it right now.

 

[Notters]

319

 

[The Clamp]

The best response to the Coronavirus? Altruism, not panic.
By Richard Friedman
Psychiatrist


https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/03/08/opinion/coronavirus-altruism.amp.html

 

[SIMMO SAYS]

Stupid, pathetic decision - if we know its goig to spread significantly, then whyy the FACK ARE WE NOT ACTING NOW?

Calm down you'll have a heart attack before it gets you

 

[dingodan]

Totally agree with the underlying psychology of this.

Yeah, it's a bit of a disconcerting reality though I think.

The truth is that social distancing now would work, if only people would listen. But they won't listen and stay disciplined for long (enough), until it is too late for a fairly large number of people.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

319

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

That's deep, man.

 

[The Clamp]

One of the problems humans have is that when faced with an unknown danger or risk, staying still (self isolating) seems a very risky strategy. We instinctively move away or engage risk, doing nothing is counter intuitive.
Unless you legally enforce it, you haven’t a hope in Hades of getting people to stop indoors.
From the lads still going to the pub, the workaholics unable to stay out fo the office or boomers who think they know best and will be damned if they aren’t going to the knit and natter group on Wednesdays.

You have to go full Chinese or simply don’t bother.

 

[peterward]

Guardian live Coronavirus banner headline "Coronavirus live updates: UK government says 'significant' outbreak will spread at speed"

If this is really the case, why do they wait until the horse has bolted?

Why are flights from Milan in the middle of the quarantine zone still landing here today and why are no checks done at all on the passengers on those flights at the airport?

I get the impression, the government are actually doing nothing much at all, except keeping up appearances.

 

[Mellotron]

Yeah, it's a bit of a disconcerting reality though I think.

The truth is that social distancing now would work, if only people would listen. But they won't listen and stay disciplined for long (enough), until it is too late for a fairly large number of people.

I think a fair few people are probably already doing it, both consciously and subconsciously.

 

[Psychobilly freakout]

To be honest one minute, I think ah this won't affect me, then I am on the verge of panic wondering if this is the apocalypse and if I die will my daughter survive and what will the world be like for her. Probably over the top reaction, but I can't help thinking the worst, things spiraling out of control, diseases, famine, social unrest, acts of terror being committed when we are vulnerable, the whole nine yards my mind goes, to the point you don't want to know....

You may think I am nuts, and I do suffer slightly from anxiety/depression, luckily I am at a point I can put things in check at the moment, but it got me wondering, it was something my daughter said asking about the virus in the car on Sunday, I had no sensible answer to...

"if we get the virus, we have to stay at home right ?"
"Yep"
"What about the homeless ?"


"Well they can go to hospital for help"
"But we are told not to go to hospital, have they reserved beds for them in advance then"

Got me thinking, spare a thought for the homeless and people with mental health issues at this time.

 

[Dick Swiveller]

Just had a message from the doctor saying only people with booked appointments can go in the surgery. Those will be the sick people, then.

 

[The Clamp]

To be honest one minute, I think ah this won't affect me, then I am on the verge of panic wondering if this is the apocalypse and if I die will my daughter survive and what will the world be like for her. Probably over the top reaction, but I can't help thinking the worst, things spiraling out of control, diseases, famine, social unrest, acts of terror being committed when we are vulnerable, the whole nine yards my mind goes, to the point you don't want to know....

You may think I am nuts, and I do suffer slightly from anxiety/depression, luckily I am at a point I can put things in check at the moment, but it got me wondering, it was something my daughter said asking about the virus in the car on Sunday, I had no sensible answer to...

"if we get the virus, we have to stay at home right ?"
"Yep"
"What about the homeless ?"


"Well they can go to hospital for help"
"But we are told not to go to hospital, have they reserved beds for them in advance then"

Got me thinking, spare a thought for the homeless and people with mental health issues at this time.

If we get a serious outbreak the homeless and others at the lowest end of the social strata will be at extremely high risk and we will definitely see a disproportionate number of homeless die. Even the mildest of illnesses can quickly develop into a life threatening situation for those trying to survive on the streets in winter.

 

[Notters]

Just had a message from the doctor saying only people with booked appointments can go in the surgery. Those will be the sick people, then.

If it's like my doctor's you can only book for about two weeks' time. What happens if more urgency needed?

 

[Albion Dan]

Just seen this posted by a doctor on FB and it's worth sharing as ulitmately I support the view that fear is going to be far more damaging that the disease itself.

Abdu Sharkawy

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

 

[Bozza]

Guardian live Coronavirus banner headline "Coronavirus live updates: UK government says 'significant' outbreak will spread at speed"

If this is really the case, why do they wait until the horse has bolted?

Why are flights from Milan in the middle of the quarantine zone still landing here today and why are no checks done at all on the passengers on those flights at the airport?

I get the impression, the government are actually doing nothing much at all, except keeping up appearances.

If you take it as given that this can’t be contained and spread is inevitable, then there may be something merit in almost allowing that initial growth to reach a level where demand is felt by the health infrastructure, but then try to throttle the acceleration of that spread via the delay phase and social distancing.

It does really seem to be about trying to give the NHS the best chance by shaping the demand put upon it.

 

[The Clamp]

Just seen this posted by a doctor on FB and it's worth sharing as ulitmately I support the view that fear is going to be far more damaging that the disease itself.

Abdu Sharkawy

I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

Posted twice yesterday. And no harm posting it for a third time. Makes a lot of sense. Except all that “what about the children”! Claptrap at the end .

 

[Dick Swiveller]

If it's like my doctor's you can only book for about two weeks' time. What happens if more urgency needed?

What is this "doctor" of which you speak? I went in around the middle of January and asked when the next standard appointment was. For a doctor - the end of February. For a paramedic, the middle of February. I had to get a 48 hour appointment by checking every so often if they had any left and then got a nurse practitioner. With follow ups with a paramedic. The paramedic writes the prescription and then has to wait for a real doctor to sign it. Last time I went, I was sat there waiting for half an hour and none of the people who come to call patients were a doctor.