London firefighters to strike on bonfire night

[Manny]

Bit of a bold claim.......! Not in my experience most I know are all pretty much local. Not a statement to prove indisputedly you are wrong, but you have set the bar for wild unsubstantiated speculation pretty high so I am comfortable with it.

believe me, most commute.

 

[Huple]

Quote : Manny: quote

By the time you weed out those not fit enough, not strong enough, those not willing to listen to orders, those with no aptitude, those with claustrophobia, fear of heights etc, etc. You actually end up with a very long list of people who work in I.T.

 

[The Spanish]

believe me, most commute.

OK then thats cleared that up.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Bit of a bold claim.......! Not in my experience most I know are all pretty much local. Not a statement to prove indisputedly you are wrong, but you have set the bar for wild unsubstantiated speculation pretty high so I am comfortable with it.

I can speak for the Euston fire station, albeit from a while back. I recall during the last dispute about 7 years or so back it was pointed out that virtually all them commuted in from the 'burbs and out-lying counties.

I admit this was a number of years ago, but the key reason for this was the cost of living in London. Nothing has drastically changed on this front for 7 years so I guess it still holds.

 

[bhaexpress]

Quote : Manny: quote

By the time you weed out those not fit enough, not strong enough, those not willing to listen to orders, those with no aptitude, those with claustrophobia, fear of heights etc, etc. You actually end up with a very long list of people who work in I.T.

Why IT ? After 37 years in IT I've never met one person who has wanted to work in the fire service. Never assume pal, I'm sure you know the rest.

 

[Manny]

OK then thats cleared that up.

Fair point.

i base it on the seventy or so London Firefighters i know, and their work colleagues. And the Union meetings i attend. I obviously dont have exact figures of how many commute but of those i know i would say around 70-80% commute in from counties like sussex.

In the past 10 years i know 27 firefighters that have transferred from Sussex to London. All of whom still live in the county.

 

[The Spanish]

I can speak for the Euston fire station, albeit from a while back. I recall during the last dispute about 7 years or so back it was pointed out that virtually all them commuted in from the 'burbs and out-lying counties.

I admit this was a number of years ago, but the key reason for this was the cost of living in London. Nothing has drastically changed on this front for 7 years so I guess it still holds.

not many people are expected to be in whistling distance of central london stations. its a big place, what does commute mean - twenty minutes on train for 6 miles (still local in my eyes) or tube or an hour and 60 miles plus? it was implied that everyone has massive commutes across counties to get to work. in the local stations where i know inner london, not central, most do 5-10 miles. i would expect preston circus has a similar sort of commute 'profile'.

implying most london firefighters have epic commutes hurtling across southern england at great distance and expense is what i read, perhaps wrongly. not my miniscule experience but apparently its indisputeable fact. the proof is on its way i am sure.

 

[The Spanish]

Fair point.

i base it on the seventy or so London Firefighters i know, and their work colleagues. And the Union meetings i attend. I obviously dont have exact figures of how many commute but of those i know i would say around 70-80% commute in from counties like sussex.

In the past 10 years i know 27 firefighters that have transferred from Sussex to London. All of whom still live in the county.

and there is the fact.

*doffs cap*

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Why IT ? After 37 years in IT I've never met one person who has wanted to work in the fire service. .

....for the reasons which were just pointed out to you

 

[bhaexpress]

....for the reasons which were just pointed out to you

Yes right ...... Oh well.

 

[Manny]

With regards to the question of 'what is a commute?'

When it comes to London i have personally always considered it to be anything outside of the M25. Just a personal view.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

After 37 years in IT I've never met one person who has wanted to work in the fire service.

I bet you have met many men who read X-Men comics and worship Star Wars though.

 

[bhaexpress]

I bet you have met many men who read X-Men comics and worship Star Wars though.

Actually no. Paint balling is the most popular pass time. Most IT people I've met read The Sun.

 

[beorhthelm]

...As i said earlier, thats 2 days a week that London Firefighters wont get to see their kids....

thats a nice emotive argument being put forward, but its rubbish. lose 2 hours in one part of the rota, but gain 2 hours in another. amount of time with family remains the same.

 

[Castello]

but it is not about pay nor is the service to be "decimated", and union's purpose is not to gain public support for their cause. think you've shown through the typical union world view of everything.

Either you have failed to read my post properly, you're so caught up in provng youre point or I havent expained myself properly. Being a patient man, extremely so considering my house is currently being torn apart by builders and my wife has stopped talking to me, I will explain again.

No the dispute is not about pay, but the pay I am referring to is the pay firemen will lose from their wages when they take strike action. You see employers do not pay workers for going on strike. So to take strike action you give up pay, whilst you are on strike. This is not a bad thing in my view, as it acts as an incentive to resolve strikes.

The reason I said the service will be decimated is because at the moment all firemen in london have been given notice of dismissal unless they agree to change their contracts. If they dont do this, in London, there will be no experienced firemen and only scab labour with 2 weeks training, who during the strike on saturday managed to crash two of the 25 fire engines provided to them. As a london resident faced with this prospect, I would suggest this falls into the category of decimation of a service, and something i would prefer not to happen. Maybe you think this will be a better service. I'd just prefer not to be living next door to you when your house burns to the ground because of a decimated fire service.

Finally you are quite correct this is stated from the view point of a trade unionist, I am impressed you managed to work that out, considering I said that you have to understand this from the view of the Union in the first line of my post. I am not impartial, I do see things from a trade union point of view. This is because in the 35 years of working in this country, I have found being a union member serves my interests better than listening to the general winging moaning and doing f all about it by the wonderful british public.

Oh and I think my patience has run out. Blame my wife and the lack of sleep I have had since finishing my shift serving the youth of south london last night trying to teach them there is a better way than street crime, so that the lovely british public who think our jobs shoukld be cut and we should face pay cuts, so we can bail out rich f'ing bankers, dont get their homes robbed.

Ive now just been told the power will be cut off.

 

[Manny]

thats a nice emotive argument being put forward, but its rubbish. lose 2 hours in one part of the rota, but gain 2 hours in another. amount of time with family remains the same.

Sorry but i have to disagree. Seeing your family for an hour or so after they get in from work/school before you have to leave for your (later starting) night shift would never replace getting to spend a whole evening with them. In my opinion like.

 

[Working class pride]

Just to add a few more facts to this one. Did you know that whilst a firefighter has risk, it is not in the top 10 risky occupations. The most risky is fishing, then merchant seaman, as well as docking, oil rigger, construction and agricultural worker. Those jobs in the private sector. So those doing those jobs might ask why they are expected to pay taxes for "risk pay" when they dont get it.
Diid you also know that a firefighters pension is in the top 10 best pension scheme list. It was changed a few years back (2007 I believe) but only for new firefighters therefore the vast majority of firefighters have the benefit of the old scheme. Also the new scheme is still in the top 10 best pension scheme list.
These are not facts to attack anyone, they are just facts. Things must change, 2 days on, 2 nights sleeping and 4 days off to do another job cannot be allowed. its unfair on the fishermen, and every other private sector worker that is paying for it. It would be nice if this was done without militant selfish unions, but think the employer has given them 5 years so the employer has now to get tough, for the rest of our sake.

 

[Huple]

if there is a strike a week on friday then i dont mind chipping in with a hand
ive got a ladder and a bucket
anyone got a cart and a bell

 

[Westdene Seagull]

It would be nice if this was done without militant selfish unions, but think the employer has given them 5 years so the employer has now to get tough, for the rest of our sake.

Errr - how does the current rota system or the new one really affect you or I to allow you to say "for the rest of our sake" ?

You make out that fire personel are doing YOU a dis-service by being able to do two jobs. Strangely, I know plenty of cabbies that hold down two jobs so are they scum of the earth like you suggest firemen are ?

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

if there is a strike a week on friday then i dont mind chipping in with a hand
ive got a ladder and a bucket
anyone got a cart and a bell

I'll help.What sort of pension scheme will we be on?.Ive got a hard hat and some oven gloves.