London firefighters to strike on bonfire night

[Working class pride]

Being working class means you value money, know people that are really poor and value hard work Beorh.. so dont slag off working class people that dont agree with a gravy train for a public sector. Tube drivers next I hope, and if they dont like it, then resign

 

[Working class pride]

Yes, I bumped into one of those very people last month in Spain lying by the pool. Retired early with a bad back at 48, now doing a bit of building work on the costas. Nice bloke though, pity i'm funding his lifestyle though

Yeah all the fiiremen Ive met were top blokes who new they had a great screw but yes that is not the point

 

[Lady Whistledown]

I think 4 on 4 off involves twelve hour shifts, so anyone working that shift pattern does exactly the same number of hours per year as anyone else. The ambulance service (at least around here) also do four on four off, twelve hour shifts, and are allowed to sleep on their night shifts providing they're not being sent to a job somewhere.

I do 6 on 4 off or 7 on 3 off (more often), but they're shorter shifts. It still equates to a 40 hour week.

 

[nicko31]

Its a lot easier to get a job as an ambulance driver than a fireman..

 

[Working class pride]

There is a reason why they are protecting these shift patterns. Its because the work at night for a fireman unlike a nurse (who is paid much less), is mainly sleeping and firemen have another job and so have a full time salary plus another job. This on top of a generous pension, retire in their 40's / 50's. Its a gravy train and as with the tube drivers, has to be stopped. And that is not a pop or a rant, just how it is.

 

[BRIGHT ON Q]

There is a reason why they are protecting these shift patterns. Its because the work at night for a fireman unlike a nurse (who is paid much less), is mainly sleeping and firemen have another job and so have a full time salary plus another job. This on top of a generous pension, retire in their 40's / 50's. Its a gravy train and as with the tube drivers, has to be stopped. And that is not a pop or a rant, just how it is.

I know 3 people in the fire brigade and they all admit how cushy it is.One of them's little catch phrase is 'it beats working for a living'.But another one is 'we get paid for what we might have to do',which i suppose is true.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

If it is so cushy and you feel that they get a better deal than you, why don't you join the fire service?

 

[Working class pride]

If it is so cushy and you feel that they get a better deal than you, why don't you join the fire service?

mate, supply of labour - people wanting to do the job is not a problem ! As one bloke on here has said that issue is another can of worms for the unions! 2 days on 4 off, another job, retirement at 40s/50s, sorry just not good good enough, has to and will change.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

2 days, followed by 2 nights, then 4 days off.
Not 2 days on, then 4 days off.

But carry on ranting.

mate, supply of labour - people wanting to do the job is not a problem ! As one bloke on here has said that issue is another can of worms for the unions! 2 days on 4 off, another job, retirement at 40s/50s, sorry just not good good enough, has to and will change.

Our resident fireman has refuted that claim of 2 days on, 4 days off.

I'm still yet to see some sort of official policy on retirement schemes. I'm not saying I disbelieve what people are purporting to be the policy, but...

I don't know enough about retirement plans for services that would require you to be fit and able. I.e. A nurse, police officer can continue into their 60s. A soldier, fireman perhaps can't.

 

[Srixon]

If it is so cushy and you feel that they get a better deal than you, why don't you join the fire service?

I'd love too. Firemen are lazy *****. how many ever see a fire and if they do it's heath and safety, by the time they've filled in forms etc the fire is out.

Sack the lot. lazy twats.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I'd love too. Firemen are lazy *****. how many ever see a fire and if they do it's heath and safety, by the time they've filled in forms etc the fire is out.

Sack the lot. lazy twats.

You do realise that firemen deal with disasters other than fires, don't you?

I don't care if you are 'fishing' or are simply...er...simple.

I think it is quite clear who is the **** in this instance.

 

[Working class pride]

Our resident fireman has refuted that claim of 2 days on, 4 days off.

I'm still yet to see some sort of official policy on retirement schemes. I'm not saying I disbelieve what people are purporting to be the policy, but...

I don't know enough about retirement plans for services that would require you to be fit and able. I.e. A nurse, police officer can continue into their 60s. A soldier, fireman perhaps can't.

read his post again - no he has not, its just that sleeping at the station is called a shift. 2 days on 4 days off and 100 days a year at work if you work it right. The fact is firemen have other jobs, retire early in their 40s and 50s, to become builders, window cleaners, and other work. It cannot and will not go on. the question you need to askis whether, if those that do not like change, resigned, whether we could recruit others to fill their jobs. The answer is yes. Also ask yourself how many black / asian firemen there are in the London fire brigade when on he subject of recruitment

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Our resident fireman has refuted that claim of 2 days on, 4 days off.

I'm still yet to see some sort of official policy on retirement schemes. I'm not saying I disbelieve what people are purporting to be the policy, but...

I don't know enough about retirement plans for services that would require you to be fit and able. I.e. A nurse, police officer can continue into their 60s. A soldier, fireman perhaps can't.

To be fair to nurses, they're on their feet most of their shift and have to lift some right chozzers, so it's probably not the ideal job to be doing into your sixties. And being a copper is supposed to be fairly active (I realise there are a few out there who do their best to ruin that image) so the same applies. Either way, you don't want to be struggling with some six foot musclebound twenty-something drunk at 62 years of age.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The answer is yes. Also ask yourself how many black / Asian firemen there are in the London fire brigade when on he subject of recruitment

The ethnic minority proportion of the Fire Brigades in England currently stands at just over 3% nationally, it's probably slightly higher in London simply because of the more ethnically diverse community they recruit from.

Also about 3% are female. These are stats from 2009-10.

 

[Srixon]

You do realise that firemen deal with disasters other than fires, don't you?

I don't care if you are 'fishing' or are simply...er...simple.

I think it is quite clear who is the **** in this instance.

You what, oh yeah, like saving cats from trees, helping little old ladies. get real. they are over paid, over hyped and not worth the money they get.

If I was in goverment I'd sack any of the lazy toads who refuse to work.

They should get a proper job. twats.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

To be fair to nurses, they're on their feet most of their shift and have to lift some right chozzers, so it's probably not the ideal job to be doing into your sixties. And being a copper is supposed to be fairly active (I realise there are a few out there who do their best to ruin that image) so the same applies. Either way, you don't want to be struggling with some six foot musclebound twenty-something drunk at 62 years of age.

I was probably being unfair. But I was working on the premise that there are more jobs for police when it comes to non-active duty as opposed to firemen.

Nurses, I would think that there is scope to move them to a more suitable ward/department should their knees begin to creek.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

You what, oh yeah, like saving cats from trees, helping little old ladies. get real. they are over paid, over hyped and not worth the money they get.

If I was in goverment I'd sack any of the lazy toads who refuse to work.

They should get a proper job. twats.

Make sure you pack a file or something suitable if you get stuck in a car. Actually, you must be on a wind up.

 

[Srixon]

ask yourself how many black / asian firemen there are in the London fire brigade when on he subject of recruitment

Would it have anything to do with the fact they are bloody clueless and that’s the reason why they fail?

 

[Working class pride]

The ethnic minority proportion of the Fire Brigades in England currently stands at just over 3% nationally, it's probably slightly higher in London simply because of the more ethnically diverse community they recruit from.

Also about 3% are female. These are stats from 2009-10.

just to clarify I was pointing out the fire brigade is seen as a closed union shop and black/asians have many say, difficulty getting a job. The main point is however, if the current lot of firefighters resigned, then could we replace them - yes we could, so if they have to, then that is what those in charge of the taxpayers money should do

 

[Manny]

wow! what a lot of moronic out of date views in this thread. Especially from someone who is supposedly Working Class Pride? You may think you are in the know.... Maybe you were 20 years ago but things have moved on a lot since then.

For a start most firefighters work 2 days, 2nights, 4 off - thats 42 hours a week. Add into that training courses etc, many of which are on rota days. Other fire fighters work days only, typically 4-5 days a week, again 42 hours. I would imagine thats probably about the average working week in this country? European working regulations stipulate you cannot work more than 60 hours a week on average over a 17 week period. When you factor in overtime (a call coinciding with the end of a shift) and training courses, a firefighter can get close to this limit.

Gone are the days of all Firefighters doing another job on the side, partly because of the above regulations. Im not saying none have additional jobs but certainly not in the masses you seem to suggest. Even if they do.... what is wrong with that? i know shift workers at the airport that have 2 jobs, i know Air Hostess' that do Bar work. I know plenty of other people that have more than one job. Why should Firefighters be excluded?

Firefighters retire in their forties? It used to be the case that if a Fire was incapacitated, he would be pensioned off, with an ill health pension. Maybe this is what you are refering to? Seems to have escaped you that the Fire Service Pension scheme recieved a major overhaul a few years ago. To recieve full pension you still have to complete 30 years service (as it always was!). The minimum retirement age however has increased from 50 to 55. That is the MINIMUM! and lets face it. If your house is on Fire do you want a truck load of 60+ turning up and carrying your family down a ladder? no, didnt think so. Ill health pension.... thats gone too. Now if you are incapacitated they find you another job - either non operational within the service, or within the council. Hope i've managed to dispell that myth for you?

As has been pointed out, Attending fires is only part of the job. In fact it is only a small part these days. As Ednas Stats indicate. With all the smoke alarms these days we attend more automatic fire alarms than we do fires.... a good thing right? but lets not forget the RTCs, the Chemical incidents, the people impaled on railings, the rescues from height, the train crashes, the one unders etc etc etc.

All of the jobs in the above list are, of course, not daily occurances in the life of a firefighter, some are perhaps once in a career but they do happen and i garuntee you they will be trained and highly professional when that job does come along. Why? because far from sitting around playing darts, eating donuts or whatever. Firefighters spend a vast amount of time training for all possible scenarios. Some are trained to extremely high technical rescue standards by any international measure. Thats why they get called to Haiti, Turkey, Indonesia and scenes of other major disasters.... because they are amongst the best in the world.

Think of it this way.... if you have an emergency, you call 999, if you are at sea a lifeboat comes. If it is a matter for the police... the police come (sometimes with the assistance of the fire service). If it is a medical emergency an Ambulance might come (sometimes with the assistance of the fire service). Everything else..... absolutely everything else, you name it..... falls to the fire service.

Then there is the community fire safety work...... Better to stop a fire happening than to have to put one out right? the home fire safety checks, the fitting of smoke alarms for people, the fire safety inspections ...... need i go on?

It really is no longer the gravy train you seem to be convinced it is!

Yes, i suppose you could just go ahead and sack all the firefighters and employ new ones.... in much the same way you could sack all the Prem league footballers and replace them with Sunday League players. It wouldnt work!!!!

There is a huge skills/experience base in the UK Fire service, you cannot replace that overnight. It is a job that relies hugely on experience!