like a lamb to the slaughter

[Easy 10]

As for this particular animal, the school now ought to retract the animal from slaughter, as (like has been said above) the children have bonded with the creature regardless of its' use to us as a species.

It will take a higher power than the school to retract Marcus from slaughter now.

And I'm not talking the PTA.

 

[DCgull]

If it's all the same, I will concede to Looney. Apparently I'm far too misanthropic or mentally ill to debate with him (or her..) Sir (or Madam) I bow to your superior <whatever you think it is>

DCgull, if you are still around, I've always been interested in the views of vegetarians who are, for want of a better word, 'preachy'. I know a few that simply do not eat meat (I'd assume for much the same reason you don't) but do not challenge the status quo, which you seem to want to do. If you don't mind, could you explain your reasons for wanting to do so? Is it an animal welfare argument?

My thoughts (for what little they are worth) is that its a fairly natural situation, for us to eat other animals. I'm not a great fan of the idea of battery farms, but I don't have a problem with an animal being killed for me to eat it; this is something that has happened for thousands of years, and has and continues to happen out in the wild, where animals high up in the food chain eat those lower down.

Shi-ite, I hope I don't sound too preachy. My reasoning is (I hope) fairly simple. The golden rule: do unto others as you would have done to you. I wouldn't want to be treated in such a way, so there is no justification is treating others like that. Animals are not 'its' but are 'hes' or 'shes' and do not deserve to be treated in ways that do not respect their subjectivity.
In short, I try to remember that there are victims in the meat eating debate as they are usually forgotten in the 'is it healthy' or 'is it natural' discussion

Hope that answers your question. Do I sound preachy?

 

[NMH]

DCgull, if you are still around, I've always been interested in the views of vegetarians who are, for want of a better word, 'preachy'. I know a few that simply do not eat meat (I'd assume for much the same reason you don't) but do not challenge the status quo, which you seem to want to do. If you don't mind, could you explain your reasons for wanting to do so? Is it an animal welfare argument?

My thoughts (for what little they are worth) is that its a fairly natural situation, for us to eat other animals. I'm not a great fan of the idea of battery farms, but I don't have a problem with an animal being killed for me to eat it; this is something that has happened for thousands of years, and has and continues to happen out in the wild, where animals high up in the food chain eat those lower down.

We do need a lot of nutrients in our diet, that demand meat.
Our teeth also indicate our dietary requirements, and the evolution of man has seen us as meat consumers.

Man is also somewhere in the food chain, incidentally - and not necessarily top of it without guns and social order. Big cats would dine on us, wolves could, as could snakes, large reptiles, amphibians, sharks and even some fish, such as piranha.

It's a kill or be killed World we live in. Think I'll have the alligator burger, please waiter.

 

[keaton]

seen this happen in life so many times, need room for a dog instead of the cat,need room for a budgie instead of the cat so the easy way is to get rid of the one you have although in this case at least it won't be put on the street for someone else to pick up the pieces.
Smacks a bit of the new toy syndrome.
So why could they have not given him away/sold it to make room.

Because they got the lamb to teach people about farming?

 

[sten_super]

Shi-ite, I hope I don't sound too preachy. My reasoning is (I hope) fairly simple. The golden rule: do unto others as you would have done to you. I wouldn't want to be treated in such a way, so there is no justification is treating others like that. Animals are not 'its' but are 'hes' or 'shes' and do not deserve to be treated in ways that do not respect their subjectivity.
In short, I try to remember that there are victims in the meat eating debate as they are usually forgotten in the 'is it healthy' or 'is it natural' discussion

Hope that answers your question. Do I sound preachy?

No you don't, preachy was completely the wrong word on my part. As I said, my experience of vegetarians is that they are happy to accept other people eating meat. You, from what you posted in this thread, don't necessarily adhere to this. I don't know that many of my friends would talk of a society where no-one eats meat (although perhaps that is simply my fault for not asking my friends these kinds of questions!).

Thanks for giving your views!

 

[NMH]

If it's all the same, I will concede to Looney. Apparently I'm far too misanthropic or mentally ill to debate with him (or her..) Sir (or Madam) I bow to your superior <whatever you think it is>



Shi-ite, I hope I don't sound too preachy. My reasoning is (I hope) fairly simple. The golden rule: do unto others as you would have done to you. I wouldn't want to be treated in such a way, so there is no justification is treating others like that. Animals are not 'its' but are 'hes' or 'shes' and do not deserve to be treated in ways that do not respect their subjectivity.
In short, I try to remember that there are victims in the meat eating debate as they are usually forgotten in the 'is it healthy' or 'is it natural' discussion

Hope that answers your question. Do I sound preachy?

In a Buddhist kind of way, yes, yes you do.
Better not murder any bacteria with that domestos then, think of the billions of victims.

So what I am saying to you, is to ask yourself where do you draw a line?
What organisms start getting eaten, for their sins of lacking escape methods?

(imagines screaming celery, objecting lentils, carrots pulled as youths from their warm earth)

 

[Hotchilidog]

We do need a lot of nutrients in our diet, that demand meat.

That is quite simply false. You can gain all your nutrients from non-animal sources if you want to, it's not that hard, honest.

 

[The Spanish]

a pal of mine told me about his Royal Marines training where they had to walk the rabbits they bundled out of a sack on Dartmoor or somewhere round on a lead for half an hour, name it and pet it for a bit, before killing it by hand and skinning the fucker.

It's the first thing that sprung to mind when I heard this.

 

[Easy 10]

a pal of mine told me about his Royal Marines training where they had to walk the rabbits they bundled out of a sack on Dartmoor or somewhere round on a lead for half an hour, name it and pet it for a bit, before killing it by hand and skinning the fucker.

And what did our Royal Marines learn from this valuable lesson ?
Don't befriend an insurgent, you may have to flay him later ?

 

[The Spanish]

And what did our Royal Marines learn from this valuable lesson ?
Don't befriend an insurgent, you may have to flay him later ?

I think the aim was to brutalise or at least desensitise them, not that the fucker needed much desensitising in the first place. It is good to see that primary schools are taking the same approach, and we are breeding a generation of 8 year olds who can storm machine gun nests without blinking.

 

[Easy 10]

Indeed.

 

[DCgull]

In a Buddhist kind of way, yes, yes you do.
Better not murder any bacteria with that domestos then, think of the billions of victims.

So what I am saying to you, is to ask yourself where do you draw a line?
What organisms start getting eaten, for their sins of lacking escape methods?

(imagines screaming celery, objecting lentils, carrots pulled as youths from their warm earth)

If that's right, I guess it's a good job I'm not a Buddhist.
The line will always be flexible but the terms I use are sentience with a very heavy dose of the precautionary principle.
Celery, lentils, bacteria are not sentient.
Cows, pigs, sheep obviously are.
Molluscs - don't ask me - apply the precautionary principle as they might be.

It's not exacting but I believe it's better to err on the side of caution. That's my calculus but I'm sure there are plenty out there.

 

[Easy 10]

If that's right, I guess it's a good job I'm not a Buddhist.
The line will always be flexible but the terms I use are sentience with a very heavy dose of the precautionary principle.
Celery, lentils, bacteria are not sentient.
Cows, pigs, sheep obviously are.
Molluscs - don't ask me - apply the precautionary principle as they might be.

It's not exacting but I believe it's better to err on the side of caution. That's my calculus but I'm sure there are plenty out there.

I take it you're not a subscriber to the "fish feel no pain" theory then.
Always thought that was gubbins meself.

 

[DCgull]

I take it you're not a subscriber to the "fish feel no pain" theory then.
Always thought that was gubbins meself.

I'd agree. Seems implausible both from their physiology and behaviour. Although there are scientific reports claiming they do feel pain and others that claim they don't released about every five seconds.
Must be a bugger being a fish: one day you feel pain and the next you don't...

 

[NMH]

What about the eggs?

Think of the yolks, before you boil the poor things

 

[Kukev31]

What about the eggs?

Think of the yolks, before you boil the poor things

So what makes Whales and Dolphins so special?

 

[DCgull]

What about the eggs?

Think of the yolks, before you boil the poor things

Psst, I'm vegan. I, however, am indifferent to the screams of tofu

I am genuinely interested in your promotion of Paul Watson et al in your signature and (what I assume is your position but forgive me if I'm wrong) meat eating. Particularly given the methods that Sea Shepherd use (I too support them, by the way).

 

[The Spanish]

So what makes Whales and Dolphins so special?

you can get dolphins to sing happy birthday to you. If cod could do that there would be mass protests and Newhaven harbour would be closed down too.

 

[Brovion]

"If God hadn't meant us to eat animals, then he wouldn't have made them out of meat".

H. Simpson.

I believe cannibals use the same logic. To quote Flanders and Swann:

"People have always eaten people,
What else is there to eat?
If the Juju had meant us not to eat people,
He wouldn't have made us of meat!"

EDIT: I just realise I've made two posts on this thread and both have been about cannibalism which ISN'T really what's being discussed. Not sure what that says about me but I bet it isn't good ...

 

[The Spanish]

but, as easy says, it is all in the execution.

and that has to be one of my favourites, in the context of this thread!