kicked off in LODZ

[W.C.]

I don't think anyone really thinks that teachers work 8.30 - 3.30 and get 12 weeks holiday a year. They do work hard. But what teachers always seem to forget, is that so do most other professionals,

I'm sorry, I have NEVER seen teachers talk about other people's job in the disrespectful way that others do about their own job.

I'm not a teacher, but I know a fair few. They all work very very hard and do a very important job. Personally I think they should get more respect.

 

[Seagulls over Lewes]

Thanks for that eye witness account which is pretty much spot on what my mates experienced. Xenephon, will look forward to your mate's account of how we ran the Poles all over the shop!

I was in Katawice in 1997 and yes the Poles were game as f*** but the English gave as good as they got. However from my point of view the Poles only wanted to attack each other and they only sold ticket in the ground in section as to where you actually lived. This trip was possibly the last time England could say that they turned up with a real firm and lost their crown of being number 1 in Saski park in Warsaw in 1999.

Under 21 Game

The Main Event

 

[chimneys]

What eastern front was that? And what sides are we talking about? The Poles who fought against the Germans? Or the Poles who fought with the Russians against the Germans? The Poles who fought with the Germans against the Russians? Maybe the Poles who guarded the prisoners before extermination in Belzec or Chelmno? Or perhaps the Poles who grassed their Jewish neighbours up to the Einsatzgruppen of the SS? Or perhaps The Poles who kicked the German civilians out of Danzig, raping and killing them behind the victorious Red Army during 1944-45?

Agree it was complicated in that part of the world during WW2 and I was talking about all nations east of Germany!

What I'm saying is if we are focussing upon the perceived toughness/reputation of a nation, it shouldnt be judged by a few lads on a pissed up jolly intent on taking a few liberties, but how that nation's men (and women), when it comes to real war toe to toe, shape up. And judging by that I think we fair very well, but so do the Ruskies/Poles/Ukranians etc etc.

 

[xenophon]

Fine, but I wasn't focusing on the perceived toughness of a nation, I was commenting on the behaviour of a slack handful of football fans at football fixtures.

 

[stripeyshark]

The Mail report says that no English nationals were involved in the violence although it says there was chanting in English.

Irish then?

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I have two close friends who are teachers, as is one of my sisters, all three of them work harder than anyone else I know. Last weekend I asked my sister what she was up to for half term, her reply ? She would stay at home on monday and tuesday but would be going in on wednesday, thursday and friday to prepare for the next term.This is the reality of most teachers holidays. And anyway, if you work a fifty hour week every week which is pretty much what all three do then I think you deserve the odd couple of weeks extra holiday.

Also, what is always forgotten is the amount of responsibility that we put on teachers heads. The education of our children, the next generation is huge and one that in my opinion sits alongside that of nurses, police, firemen etc and should be rewarded as such.

As for privatising education, how long have you got ?

Now, back to luzzing plastic chairs round continental Europe.

 

[chimneys]

Fine, but I wasn't focusing on the perceived toughness of a nation, I was commenting on the behaviour of a slack handful of football fans at football fixtures.

A more interesting debate than the one about teachers this thread has spawned!

 

[Working class pride]

I have two close friends who are teachers, as is one of my sisters, all three of them work harder than anyone else I know. Last weekend I asked my sister what she was up to for half term, her reply ? She would stay at home on monday and tuesday but would be going in on wednesday, thursday and friday to prepare for the next term.This is the reality of most teachers holidays. And anyway, if you work a fifty hour week every week which is pretty much what all three do then I think you deserve the odd couple of weeks extra holiday.

If your sister even pipes up to moan, then ask her what time she will arrive at work and leave work during her holiday and what she will be doing all summer. Then introduce her to the world of people from Eastern Europe who with English as a second language have opened business in London as lawyers, letting agents and taxi drivers that I know and know of. Their world on a smaller take home is:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Its not teacher bashing its facing facts. Also if there was a teacher that had get up and go then they would welcome the chance to do things their way, set up school and be better than the other teachers around them, win custom and thrive with a successful business. Its a mentality thing and really is the difference between Eastern European people who fought to escape communism and a cushy public sector in the uk who just want to protect what they have. There we go, it is what it is.

Yes will leave this to those that want to talk about people throwing stuff around

 

[vulture]

no not the football, mob of poles turn up at a boozer in cars and attack people drinking outside

ROUND 1

What a price

 

[Phat Baz 68]

Not pointless at all, I'm interested what puts the fire in their bellies.

I would hazard a guess and say VODKA !!!!!!!

 

[Franks Wild Years]

I have two close friends who are teachers, as is one of my sisters, all three of them work harder than anyone else I know. Last weekend I asked my sister what she was up to for half term, her reply ? She would stay at home on monday and tuesday but would be going in on wednesday, thursday and friday to prepare for the next term.This is the reality of most teachers holidays. And anyway, if you work a fifty hour week every week which is pretty much what all three do then I think you deserve the odd couple of weeks extra holiday.

If your sister even pipes up to moan, then ask her what time she will arrive at work and leave work during her holiday and what she will be doing all summer. Then introduce her to the world of people from Eastern Europe who with English as a second language have opened business in London as lawyers, letting agents and taxi drivers that I know and know of. Their world on a smaller take home is:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Its not teacher bashing its facing facts. Also if there was a teacher that had get up and go then they would welcome the chance to do things their way, set up school and be better than the other teachers around them, win custom and thrive with a successful business. Its a mentality thing and really is the difference between Eastern European people who fought to escape communism and a cushy public sector in the uk who just want to protect what they have. There we go, it is what it is.

Yes will leave this to those that want to talk about people throwing stuff around

1 We're second generation Hungarian immigrants so less of the Eastern European lecturing.
2 You are wrong
3 I dont think my sister pipes, we're Hungarian, not Scottish.
4 For someone calling themselves working class pride you seem to have swallowed The Daily Mail middle class lie line pretty well.
5 You want to talk to Eastern Europeans in Eastern Europe who now find themselves without jobs, affordable homes, healthcare,pensions since the great market economy has done away with their public sector.
6 You're still wrong.
7 Yep, still wrong
8 The Hungarian plastic chair is lighter so although easier to luzz has less of an impact on impact.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I have two close friends who are teachers, as is one of my sisters, all three of them work harder than anyone else I know. Last weekend I asked my sister what she was up to for half term, her reply ? She would stay at home on monday and tuesday but would be going in on wednesday, thursday and friday to prepare for the next term.This is the reality of most teachers holidays. And anyway, if you work a fifty hour week every week which is pretty much what all three do then I think you deserve the odd couple of weeks extra holiday.

If your sister even pipes up to moan, then ask her what time she will arrive at work and leave work during her holiday and what she will be doing all summer. Then introduce her to the world of people from Eastern Europe who with English as a second language have opened business in London as lawyers, letting agents and taxi drivers that I know and know of. Their world on a smaller take home is:-

1. What they kill they eat (ie they have to win their own customers to earn) - there is no government safe cheque at the end of every month to pay for a flat/ house/ room, food, clothes, or dinner invitations.
2. If they do not work, they do not earn. They have no paid holiday at all, never mind taking at least one week off every five weeks.
3. They have no pension and no retirement on two thirds government backed safe pensionable salary when they reach 60odd.
4. If they have stress or they are ill, they do not earn and there is no retirement on ill health and nobody writes them down and records them as a statistic.

Its not teacher bashing its facing facts. Also if there was a teacher that had get up and go then they would welcome the chance to do things their way, set up school and be better than the other teachers around them, win custom and thrive with a successful business. Its a mentality thing and really is the difference between Eastern European people who fought to escape communism and a cushy public sector in the uk who just want to protect what they have. There we go, it is what it is.

Yes will leave this to those that want to talk about people throwing stuff around

Can I just say I really cannot see the association between a teacher and Eastern Europeans who work in factories. They are at completely different ends of the scales with different expectations. I doubt any of these Eastern Europeans are working in factories as a career or interest in manufacturing. They are just doing the job for the money because it is better than they would get at home. Teachers on the other hand choose to teach which is why they go to university to get a degree. Pension and holidays are a bonus of being a teacher.

This is where manufacturing has gone wrong in this country. These companies need to be creating proper apprenticeships in Mechanical Engineering.
They need to be employing more of our young people and make Engineering a worthwhile career choice. Eventually these people will add proper value to the company.

 

[Working class pride]

1 We're second generation Hungarian immigrants so less of the Eastern European lecturing.
2 You are wrong
3 I dont think my sister pipes, we're Hungarian, not Scottish.
4 For someone calling themselves working class pride you seem to have swallowed The Daily Mail middle class lie line pretty well.
5 You want to talk to Eastern Europeans in Eastern Europe who now find themselves without jobs, affordable homes, healthcare,pensions since the great market economy has done away with their public sector.
6 You're still wrong.
7 Yep, still wrong
8 The Hungarian plastic chair is lighter so although easier to luzz has less of an impact on impact.

I cant let you get away with that. Im half Sussex, half second generation something else "immigrant". I know first hand people that have arrived in the UK and have set up business such as law, letting agents, coffee shops ect. I also have had family that have been through the same journey of working all hours, both as immigrants and on the Sussex side. To compare the cushy number of teachers and them is frankly putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalala" because it doesn't suit you. No I dont "swallow the daily Mail". I cannot stand that newspaper and its not about abolishing the public sector its how the public sector serves the public. The important people are not the service providers but the customers of that service. Teachers should embrace the chance to compete and be better than each other, but do they fook. They just focus on keeping what they have and expect my Eastern European friends to work 6 days a week to pay for their holiday for every 5 weeks at work. Its frankly immoral.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I cant let you get away with that. Im half Sussex, half second generation something else "immigrant". I know first hand people that have arrived in the UK and have set up business such as law, letting agents, coffee shops ect. I also have had family that have been through the same journey of working all hours, both as immigrants and on the Sussex side. To compare the cushy number of teachers and them is frankly putting your fingers in your ears and going "lalala" because it doesn't suit you. No I dont "swallow the daily Mail". I cannot stand that newspaper and its not about abolishing the public sector its how the public sector serves the public. The important people are not the service providers but the customers of that service. Teachers should embrace the chance to compete and be better than each other, but do they fook. They just focus on keeping what they have and expect my Eastern European friends to work 6 days a week to pay for their holiday for every 5 weeks at work. Its frankly immoral.

They already compete against foreign teachers when they apply for new teaching posts. You do realise that there are thousands of foreign teachers working in schools?
Nobody expects Eastern Europeans to work pay for their holidays, that's just stupid.

 

[Working class pride]

One last point that you may have missed, is that letting teachers compete and open schools will mean good teachers pay will rise, as they will be free to open their own business / schools. As I say, its a mentality thing of safe pension and safe cheque at the end of each month against innovation, competition and being good at what you do. Its not teacher bashing, its about delivering for kids and frankly only a teacher could think that schools are good enough as they are.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

One last point that you may have missed, is that letting teachers compete and open schools will mean good teachers pay will rise, as they will be free to open their own business / schools. As I say, its a mentality thing of safe pension and safe cheque at the end of each month against innovation, competition and being good at what you do. Its not teacher bashing, its about delivering for kids and frankly only a teacher could think that schools are good enough as they are.

Thing is you wont get any good teachers this way. Schools will end up having such a high turn over of teachers, the school will end up going in to special measures.
You can't run a school as a business, it does not work like that. Just like you can't run the NHS as a business. In the end people suffer, that being your childrens education.

 

[Working class pride]

Thing is you wont get any good teachers this way. Schools will end up having such a high turn over of teachers, the school will end up going in to special measures.
You can't run a school as a business, it does not work like that. Just like you can't run the NHS as a business. In the end people suffer, that being your children.

Yes you can. All international schools are ran as a business, as are old fashioned public schools (that I would not send my kids to but many like).

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Potentially good thread turned into a bore fest by people debating teachers.

 

[daveinprague]

Particularly when the Russians show intent.
http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=/watch%3Fv%3DC7D0fNtIdW0%26feature%3Dplayer_embedded

 

[Oscar]

What's with all the teacher crap on here?

Have NUT got their own firm over for the Euros?