Iran hangs teenagers for being gay

[Hungry Joe]

That's odd, that word 'Iran' again. Seems to be cropping up a lot recently, and always linked with stuff that any right-minded UK citizen would be rightly outraged about. Is there a pattern forming here?

The only pattern I see forming is one of incredible stupidity. Vlad was right about one thing and that is the hypocrisy at work here; hypocrisy displayed by some of the more infamous xenophobes, sexists and homophobes on this board who suddenly start championing gay rights and pretend to be outraged by 'crimes' against homosexuals, women and anyone else when it suits them as it fits nicely with their very limited understanding of what really is going on in the world and gives them another excuse to indulge in a spot of Islamaphobia.

These acts in Iran (and previously Afghanistan and Iraq) are nothing new and are little different from similar abuses that are taking place daily in other countries (Saudi Arabia and many African countries for example), the only difference being Iran is the bad boy now because certain Western powers want you all to think that so it eases the way forward for any impending action they may take against this regieme. These acts are disgusting and we should all be appalled by them but just why are they suddenly so newsworthy? Wake up and smell the coffee, or more appropriately the bullshit.

 

[bhaexpress]

The only pattern I see forming is one of incredible stupidity. Vlad was right about one thing and that is the hypocrisy at work here; hypocrisy displayed by some of the more infamous xenophobes, sexists and homophobes on this board who suddenly start championing gay rights and pretend to be outraged by 'crimes' against homosexuals, women and anyone else when it suits them as it fits nicely with their very limited understanding of what really is going on in the world and gives them another excuse to indulge in a spot of Islamaphobia.

These acts in Iran (and previously Afghanistan and Iraq) are nothing new and are little different from similar abuses that are taking place daily in other countries (Saudi Arabia and many African countries for example), the only difference being Iran is the bad boy now because certain Western powers want you all to think that so it eases the way forward for any impending action they may take against this regieme. These acts are disgusting and we should all be appalled by them but just why are they suddenly so newsworthy? Wake up and smell the coffee, or more appropriately the bullshit.

I see what you're saying and yes you're right and I would say that I am guilty of what you say. Iran might hang homosexuals which most people find aborant but we all know that if Bush was to invade Iran it wouldn't be to save a handful of gays. I will never accept that he invaded Iraq to bring down a tyrant. If that was the case he's got several much closer to home.

The real question is what is the real agenda behind the proposed invasion ? Sorry but it still comes back to oil as far as I'm concerned. If there was a drastic oil shortage in the US then you would have anarchy there,

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

These acts in Iran (and previously Afghanistan and Iraq) are nothing new and are little different from similar abuses that are taking place daily in other countries (Saudi Arabia and many African countries for example), the only difference being Iran is the bad boy now because certain Western powers want you all to think that so it eases the way forward for any impending action they may take against this regieme. These acts are disgusting and we should all be appalled by them but just why are they suddenly so newsworthy? Wake up and smell the coffee, or more appropriately the bullshit.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly. As posted on my thread yesterday 'Are We Being Softened Up For An Illegal and Immoral Invasion Of Iran?'. Suddenly, for some reason, it's very important that Iran be regarded as Number One Bogeyman. Wonder why that would be, eh?

Bush & Blair got about three more years to impose their New World Order. They gotta step up the pace from here on in.

Kick Out Every Labour MP If They Go Along With It.

Tell them God told you to.

 

[DJ Leon]

What a lot of pomposity and hypocrisy on this thread (in addition to Ernest's pathetic humour).

I love BHA's ability to drag his warped view of America into any possible thread. Here he talks of the US wanting to invade Iran, quite ignorant of the fact that his own desire to apply Judeo-Christian western standards of what is 'civilised' to a completely different culture is a distinct form of imperialism in itself.

If we're talking about the ability to drag a warped view into a thread, how about you suggesting that showing outrage and disgust at these hangings is in some way a 'desire to apply Judeo-Christian western standards of what is 'civilised' to a completely different culture' and therefore a 'distinct form of imperialism in itself'.

What absolute garbage - that's a complete justification of these hangings just because Islamic law allows it. Do you not have an opinion on human rights? I don't care where you are, who are you are, what religion you are - public hangings are barbaric and uncivilised. If these young men have been killed for being gay, then that's another level of atrocity that we shouldn't be seeing in this century (let alone the end of the last).

Am I still sounding imperialistic?

 

[London Irish]

That's odd, that word 'Iran' again. Seems to be cropping up a lot recently, and always linked with stuff that any right-minded UK citizen would be rightly outraged about. Is there a pattern forming here?

That was my first reaction too - but having looked at Doug Ireland's website, it doesn't seem a natural candidate for CIA funding to me, given all the queer, lefty links on it

 

[Hungry Joe]

I see what you're saying and yes you're right and I would say that I am guilty of what you say. Iran might hang homosexuals which most people find aborant but we all know that if Bush was to invade Iran it wouldn't be to save a handful of gays. I will never accept that he invaded Iraq to bring down a tyrant. If that was the case he's got several much closer to home.

The real question is what is the real agenda behind the proposed invasion ? Sorry but it still comes back to oil as far as I'm concerned. If there was a drastic oil shortage in the US then you would have anarchy there,

It is all about oil, nothing else. The USA is on the brink of major recession, made worse by the effect of the recent hurricanes, and when it's reserves finally run out then it's whole wealth and power base will be seriously eroded. This is going to happen, it's a fact that George Bush as an oil man and a patriot knows only too well. Blair knows it too but being a tad more intelligent than his US counterpart he has managed to convince himself and much of the world that he believes it really is a moral war on terror. It is no such thing, he knows if the USA loses much of it's economical and political power then so do we by default.

 

[DJ Leon]

The only pattern I see forming is one of incredible stupidity. Vlad was right about one thing and that is the hypocrisy at work here; hypocrisy displayed by some of the more infamous xenophobes, sexists and homophobes on this board who suddenly start championing gay rights and pretend to be outraged by 'crimes' against homosexuals, women and anyone else when it suits them as it fits nicely with their very limited understanding of what really is going on in the world and gives them another excuse to indulge in a spot of Islamaphobia.

These acts in Iran (and previously Afghanistan and Iraq) are nothing new and are little different from similar abuses that are taking place daily in other countries (Saudi Arabia and many African countries for example), the only difference being Iran is the bad boy now because certain Western powers want you all to think that so it eases the way forward for any impending action they may take against this regieme. These acts are disgusting and we should all be appalled by them but just why are they suddenly so newsworthy? Wake up and smell the coffee, or more appropriately the bullshit.

Are we saying that the 'homophobes on this board' really want to see homesexuals strung up? Jeez, I hope not.

These acts are certainly nothing new and their appearance in the news at this time is suspect, but I'm going to accuse people of Islamaphobia just becasue they speak out against them. Yes, it would be nice for more people to notice that America is in fact one of the world's greatest abuser of human rights, but I don't see why we can't say what we think about Iran just because their views of 'justice' are tied in with Islam or because we might look like we're falling for Bush's view of the world.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

That was my first reaction too - but having looked at Doug Ireland's website, it doesn't seem a natural candidate for CIA funding to me, given all the queer, lefty links on it

Have to say, I had a look there too, and came to the same conclusion. But then again Doug Ireland didn't post it on here (and who knows how many other sites). It's crafty. I mean, what better way to get the 'pinko liberal' community on-side aye? Iran's actions are to be condemned to be sure. But the steady drip-drip-drip of anti-Iran propaganda is definitely on the increase. And for one reason only. Maybe they should hire Max Clifford?

 

[Hungry Joe]

Kick Out Every Labour MP If They Go Along With It.

Tell them God told you to.

Now that IS funny

 

[bhaexpress]

It is all about oil, nothing else. The USA is on the brink of major recession, made worse by the effect of the recent hurricanes, and when it's reserves finally run out then it's whole wealth and power base will be seriously eroded. This is going to happen, it's a fact that George Bush as an oil man and a patriot knows only too well. Blair knows it too but being a tad more intelligent than his US counterpart he has managed to convince himself and much of the world that he believes it really is a moral war on terror. It is no such thing, he knows if the USA loses much of it's economical and political power then so do we by default.

Joe, I could not agree more, well said.

 

[London Irish]

Have to say, I had a look there too, and came to the same conclusion. But then again Doug Ireland didn't post it on here (and who knows how many other sites). It's crafty. I mean, what better way to get the 'pinko liberal' community on-side aye? Iran's actions are to be condemned to be sure. But the steady drip-drip-drip of anti-Iran propaganda is definitely on the increase. And for one reason only.

Agreed. There is a chance someone could be manipulating well-meaning people like Doug Ireland - really hard to call on this one.

 

[DJ Leon]

Do we really reckon that the US would invade Iran? I'm not so sure.

 

[bhaexpress]

Agreed. There is a chance someone could be manipulating well-meaning people like Doug Ireland - really hard to call on this one.

Fair Comment you two, I just have a bit of difficulty believing that the Americams could be that subtle !

 

[Hungry Joe]

Are we saying that the 'homophobes on this board' really want to see homesexuals strung up? Jeez, I hope not.

These acts are certainly nothing new and their appearance in the news at this time is suspect, but I'm going to accuse people of Islamaphobia just becasue they speak out against them. Yes, it would be nice for more people to notice that America is in fact one of the world's greatest abuser of human rights, but I don't see why we can't say what we think about Iran just because their views of 'justice' are tied in with Islam or because we might look like we're falling for Bush's view of the world.

To your first question I think some of them would.

I see what you're saying with the rest but that's not what I really meant, sorry if it came across like that. I've got nothing against anyone speaking out against these attrocities and the countries that allow them to happen. My comments were aimed more at the f***ing Muslims! crowd, who in their spare time exert a fair amount of typing energy on f***ing queers! etc yet are too stupid to realise their hypocrisy and when it is pointed out just say "aw, jeez, I didn't really mean it, I was being ironic" or "are you a poof/one of the pc brigade?/tree-hugging lefty then?".

 

[London Irish]

Do we really reckon that the US would invade Iran? I'm not so sure.

Invasion, no, bombing campaign, yes.

Big upsurge of anti-Iran stuff on Fox News now. No doves like Powell in the Bush administration to rein in the bombers.

I'd say it's a 50/50 call that Iran will be attacked before Hilary comes along to rescue the world from these Dr Strangeloves.

 

[DJ Leon]

Invasion, no, bombing campaign, yes.

Big upsurge of anti-Iran stuff on Fox News now. No doves like Powell in the Bush administration to rein in the bombers.

I'd say it's a 50/50 call that Iran will be attacked before Hilary comes along to rescue the world from these Dr Strangeloves.

I just can't belive it will happen (bombing or invasion). I simply can't get my head around how stupid it would be.

Please God, don't let it happen. Oh, hang on, isn't he telling George Bush to do it?

 

[bhaexpress]

Invasion, no, bombing campaign, yes.

Big upsurge of anti-Iran stuff on Fox News now. No doves like Powell in the Bush administration to rein in the bombers.

I'd say it's a 50/50 call that Iran will be attacked before Hilary comes along to rescue the world from these Dr Strangeloves.

Sometimes I get the feeling that atacking Iran is not in many ways disimilar to Maggie having us to invade the Falklands, a matter of gaining political brownie points and to distract the nation from the problems within it.

Think about it, we might end up digging for oil down there at some point, see any connection ?

 

[Vlad the Impala]

What drugs are you on ? It was merely an observation. Whatever, do you really feel that whereever the hanging took place there's a justification ?

I don't have a warped view of America but having lived there a lot in places well outside of the tourist areas I have a far better idea of what some of them think. The only person who's warped Vlad is you because you have no idea. When you've spent a few years in America's Bible belt then your opinion might be worth hearing, until then keep quiet

Erm, yes I am VERY familiar with the Bible Belt, thank you. Rather pompous of you to assume you are the only one who has lived there.

The point is that you are viewing the hangings against a backdrop of your own culture and upbringing. You don't like what they did - I don't like what they did. But we are not them. They clearly see things very differently. You want them to see things exactly the way we do because to you that is 'right.' You want to judge them by your standards because you (maybe subconsciously) think the western way is superior. But what is 'right' is often simply a matter of culture and moment in history. It is not that long ago that similar things would have been done by your ancestors. Your attitude is little different to European attitudes of the past that said the 'savages' needed to be 'civilised'.

 

[Vlad the Impala]

What absolute garbage - that's a complete justification of these hangings just because Islamic law allows it.

Isn't that what our own democracy is all about? Or must it be only when people choose what you agree with?

I don't care where you are, who are you are, what religion you are - public hangings are barbaric and uncivilised. If these young men have been killed for being gay, then that's another level of atrocity that we shouldn't be seeing in this century (let alone the end of the last).

I would agree, as most in our culture probably would. To me it seems barbaric also, but I know that opinion is the result of my upbringing and my culture and I should not rashly seek to impose my culture on someone else. At the end of the day, it is for the people of Iran to decide what is acceptable to the people of Iran, not you.

Am I still sounding imperialistic?

Yes. Very. You want them to be just like us. Their ideas of how things should be done don't agree with yours, so theirs must be wrong and they must change. You sound like the people who say Koreans shouldn't eat dogs and then can't understand why they don't eat a nice beef steak in much of India.

 

[bhaexpress]

Vlad old boy, I might be pompous but I think that it's beter than being obnoxious, I somehow doubt that you have the familarity with the Bible Belt that you claim as well. If you did you'd be far more aware of the intollerence there. According to the average 'devout Christian ' there, and believe me I have met more than a few, they think that homosexuality is an abomination against God. I It says so in the Bible I'm told. But of course you knew that didn't you ? Oh dear, clearly not.

You seem to be saying, well I don't like it but as it's another culture that's okay. By that token no doubt the Holocaust was okay too because it happened in a 'different culture'. Wrong, it is not okay.

As it is, I have no desire to continue this dialog as not only will it bore other people . You should have replied to the PM I sent you rather than start a pointless row,