How thick are students...

[Castello]

Whaaaattttt ? Haven't you heard that the country has a rather large debt ? How do you suggest we sort that out ? The students have an issue but so do plenty of others, they are entitled to protest but not get violent. Who exactly are 'Merchants of Hate' ? Some people have strong opinions but if that's what you call hate I wonder what you call love.

In fairness not you. I have always found that, although I disagree with much of what you say, you make your point thoughtfully and constructively. I have no issue with that. Thats how intelligent debate is conducted.

I do have an issue with people being personally abusive, using threats and foul language to make a point. Its so unnecessary and so pointless, and only results in ridicule.

I am not suggesting that there isnt a deficit. What i am saying is that politics in this country has removed a whole class of people from the discourse. This class has not only been ignored by all three parties, but been treated with utter contempt, writing them off as unwashed, stupid and scroungers. They are still however expected to pay the bulk of taxation. To do this seems pretty hate filled to me.

What I am saying this treatment works for so long before they stop allowing themselves to be written off and start fighting back. If they have no political party to vote for, how else will they express themselves but through direct action.

What most people forget is that this isnt a new situation, its what happened before the Labour party was formed to give these people a political voice. I'm merely pointing out that since the Labour Party has betrayed this class, we are back where we started.

 

[User removed 4]

So basically your calling me a liar about my envolvement in what started as a peaceful protest outside Millbank that then turned nasty? Right. Do you want to know what I was doing yesterday? FOR THE TENTH f***ing TIME: I was chanting, not throwing shit, not abusing police officers, i came on and made a mistake in posting angrily since i'd not calmed down but then when I had i was able to speak from a slightly more objective stance.

However the reason I think that if your quote is to be read as it was, you believe all students were being violent at Millbank from the march. You, one of the people that we trust to teach and and advise us and who have the second biggest, if not the biggest power to shape the youth (as your message below your name suggests) and you believe in all your experience that EVERYONE agreed with ALL of the actions, that everyone was involved and therefore I do not believe that you should be in teaching if that is your stance since you clearly cannot comprehend the difference between 2/300 and 1000 or even more worryingly 2/300 and 50,000.

You did however, give it the large one with this delightful little ststement in your first post

' I'm proud to say i pushed my way inside the tory HQ, intimidated tory party workers '

 

[Biscuit]

Could I not argue like a student instead? Start off with a peaceful march and then have a little riot where they all get to join in? Sounds much more fun - and as you and the fellow revolutionaries keep telling us - it gets you noticed, doesn't it? Won't change anything, no matter how much the pot of discontent simmers. We are not in for a season of riots because that's not how we do things. Granted, there may be a couple, but hardly Paris burning by night are we?

It may not change things. Or it may change things. Who knows, the point is that the Government has seen the strength of feeling. Just look at the poll tax riots. A big factor in bringing Thatcher down. Mob behaviour, does on occasion, help promote positive policy outcomes. In fact there are some parallels here, Poll tax was scrapped for a scheme took into account the ability to pay. Not a million miles away from the type of system I'm sure many students would like to see implemented.

We may not be in for a season of riots. I'm certainly not expecting one.

 

[KneeOn]

If you understood sarcasm you would not be digging this hole. I was "told" to argue like an adult so I put a sarcastic reply (on a thread about students demonstrating - ie arguing) about how I would prefer to argue like a student. You came off with a facetious remark about me "not deserving to be in teaching" so I thought I would throw something equally facetious and rude back to you. Did you not get the mirror comment at the end of my comment?

Perhaps you should concentrate more on your studies than your protesting.

No i didn't My bad. As for studies. I'm only at college for EMA, to get laid, and for the fun bits

I'm not condoning the violence. the first post on this thread I made, i put a series of seperate points in a form that looked like a list. It looks like firstly i went in, then i was intimidating tory workers, then i cried about the police.

I chanted (intimidated... wrong choice of word SO YES I f***ing MADE A MISTAKE IN THAT POST. CARE TO DROP IT NOW?), i had to push in to get my friend out, and we were pushed back from the window by the police. At the time the police bit pissed us off but that was funnily enough, at the time.

What is so hard to understand the concept that I made a mistake in the way and the message in the post i made? Or am I missing something. I've spent so long explaining i've made a mistake in my thread, not in my actions. because. I WAS NOT VIOLENT. 2/300 were, mostly twats. the rest of us protested (which is intimidation of a sort) peacefully for the march AND outside the Millbank. Its the 2/300 hundred who smashed things up and threw shit down that are undermining the rest of the march.

I think this is a really simple concept but I could be wrong

And yes i'm backtracking from my first post. Hindsight. Ever used it? Its beautiful.

 

[simonsimon]

In the aftermath of yesterday’s student protests, David Cameron has confirmed that there will be no turning back. An echo of the lady is not for turning could be suggested. So are we heading for a good old dose of Thatcher revisited?

The events are an unsurprising consequence of government policy that is shaped by political ideology rather than the economic necessity which they continue to bang on about ad nauseum.


We can all look forward to a Winter of riotous behaviour.

 

[KneeOn]

You did however, give it the large one with this delightful little ststement in your first post

' I'm proud to say i pushed my way inside the tory HQ, intimidated tory party workers '

yes, yes I did. But that was a very muddled quote.

I intimidated tory party workers by protesting peacefully shouting "Tory Scum" et al outside their offices BEFORE I had to push my way in to get my friend out. A mistake. I'm sorry NSC, I had an outpour on a thread, muddled my sentances up and that was that. As it happens i'm a fairly good touch typer, and can type without looking or finding keys so I didn't need to think about what i was typing but was just able to type it straight up.

Once again, i'm sorry for my confusing post.

 

[User removed 4]

I chanted (intimidated... wrong choice of word SO YES I f***ing MADE A MISTAKE IN THAT POST. CARE TO DROP IT NOW?), I think this is a really simple concept but I could be wrong

What do you consider would be the correct choice of word for your actions ?

 

[User removed 4]

yes, yes I did. But that was a very muddled quote.

I intimidated tory party workers by protesting peacefully shouting "Tory Scum" et al outside their offices BEFORE I had to push my way in to get my friend out. A mistake. I'm sorry NSC, I had an outpour on a thread, muddled my sentances up and that was that. As it happens i'm a fairly good touch typer, and can type without looking or finding keys so I didn't need to think about what i was typing but was just able to type it straight up.

Once again, i'm sorry for my confusing post.

Fair enough, it's your age

 

[Joey Deacon's Disco Suit]

Hampshire, argue like an adult or don't bother mate, there's a good lad.

I am familiar with Smith v ADVFN, according to 5rb.com "postings on bulletin board discussion groups are much more akin to slander than to libel. There is sense in the point, but the essential difference between libel and slander is that libel is permanent and slander is transitory. Postings on a bulletin board may be akin to speech, but unlike speech they are permanent and accessible, even though they may not be re-read once the ‘thread’ has moved on." So it may be more akin to slander, but err.. it isn't. I accept however that I was wrong to call it libellous, there you go a concession. Give it a try... at the end of the day, the students (and that is what we were talking about before the thread got highjacked by abuse merchants) had every right to protest both legally and morally and I for one am glad they did.

Haha! You fool! You clearly weren't familiar with the case until you just googled it 5 minutes ago and you really haven't a clue about judicial precedent.

The judge in that case ruled that internet messageboards were more like slander. He ruled this. I'll repeat - the judge made that ruling. I'm sorry that he didn't consult you first on what your opinion was but I guess his 30 odd years practicing law was a good substitute. As such it now carries weight in similar cases as judicial precedent.

So, it's all well and good you giving your not so learned opinion on it and granting me concessions but unfortunately the UK doesn't recognise Biscuit Law so I'll not 'give it a try'. What was I supposed to be trying it for anyway?

Right, so we've gone right off-topic and all we have established is that you know the square root of nothing about, well, anything really. You're well mental, did you know that?

 

[KneeOn]

What do you consider would be the correct choice of word for your actions ?

I made a direct yet non-violent protest outside the Tory Party HQ before it was smashed up by joining in with anti-tory chants and anti-cut chants that were being sang from about 11 with the main march? before having to push through a crowd of very drunk, very stoned rioters to find my friend who was swept away with one of the many surges.

Typing very fast and without thinking however, I didn't think of a nice way of putting it. I'm proud of what I did still, by in the way it has been explained here rather than in the first post.

 

[bhaexpress]

In fairness not you. I have always found that, although I disagree with much of what you say, you make your point thoughtfully and constructively. I have no issue with that. Thats how intelligent debate is conducted.

I do have an issue with people being personally abusive, using threats and foul language to make a point. Its so unnecessary and so pointless, and only results in ridicule.

I am not suggesting that there isnt a deficit. What i am saying is that politics in this country has removed a whole class of people from the discourse. This class has not only been ignored by all three parties, but been treated with utter contempt, writing them off as unwashed, stupid and scroungers. They are still however expected to pay the bulk of taxation. To do this seems pretty hate filled to me.

What I am saying this treatment works for so long before they stop allowing themselves to be written off and start fighting back. If they have no political party to vote for, how else will they express themselves but through direct action.

What most people forget is that this isnt a new situation, its what happened before the Labour party was formed to give these people a political voice. I'm merely pointing out that since the Labour Party has betrayed this class, we are back where we started.

Point taken and my apologies. I am not on either side in fact because it's such an insoluble problem. I think the fact that this decision was made by a Tory government it has added that in the mess. I wonder what would have been the reaction if the changes had been brought in by a Labour government. The saddest thing for be is that thanks to the actions of a let's face it, handful of individual a whole section of society have been utterly discredited.

 

[User removed 4]

I made a direct yet non-violent protest outside the Tory Party HQ before it was smashed up by joining in with anti-tory chants and anti-cut chants that were being sang from about 11 with the main march? before having to push through a crowd of very drunk, very stoned rioters to find my friend who was swept away with one of the many surges.

Typing very fast and without thinking however, I didn't think of a nice way of putting it. I'm proud of what I did still, by in the way it has been explained here rather than in the first post.

i asked the question before i saw your reply to my post.

 

[Sheebo]

So are we all agreed a degree means absolutely f*** all these days anyway so there was no need to protest atall?

 

[KneeOn]

i asked the question before i saw your reply to my post.

The joy of a very fast moving thread!

Right i'm off to sell my college. I expect 7 posts to reference my since self-criticized post when I return.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

No-one seems to have clarified what fees would be incurred and who would pay the most/least.

Can we afford to keep the current levels of fees, bearing in mind the market is saturated with graduates as it is.

 

[clarkey]

So are we all agreed a degree means absolutely f*** all these days anyway so there was no need to protest atall?

Oooooh you little rascal. Dont get us started on that one.

 

[Biscuit]

So are we all agreed a degree means absolutely f*** all these days anyway so there was no need to protest atall?

Trying really hard not to bite you TEASE you!

 

[Sheebo]

Oooooh you little rascal. Dont get us started on that one.

It was a blatant fishing attempt by myself!

True though to a DEGREE (see what I did there!)

 

[attila]

In fairness not you. I have always found that, although I disagree with much of what you say, you make your point thoughtfully and constructively. I have no issue with that. Thats how intelligent debate is conducted.

I do have an issue with people being personally abusive, using threats and foul language to make a point. Its so unnecessary and so pointless, and only results in ridicule.

I am not suggesting that there isnt a deficit. What i am saying is that politics in this country has removed a whole class of people from the discourse. This class has not only been ignored by all three parties, but been treated with utter contempt, writing them off as unwashed, stupid and scroungers. They are still however expected to pay the bulk of taxation. To do this seems pretty hate filled to me.

What I am saying this treatment works for so long before they stop allowing themselves to be written off and start fighting back. If they have no political party to vote for, how else will they express themselves but through direct action.

What most people forget is that this isnt a new situation, its what happened before the Labour party was formed to give these people a political voice. I'm merely pointing out that since the Labour Party has betrayed this class, we are back where we started.

Well said.
Certain people in the City, quite calculatingly and deliberately, gambled with
OUR money for their own personal gain and lost: this along with similar activity in America and elsewhere, is the root and branch of the financial crisis which we now face.

In doing this they did nothing 'illegal' (which shows the whole anarchic rottenness of the economic system under which we live) and we are now expected to bail them out, with the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised - all easy targets with no voice - at the top of the list, and the unemployed (many of them unemployed because of the crisis brought on by the short sellers) expected to work for their dole, while the people who caused the mess continue to rake in their bonuses and get off scot free.

I am not surprised by this, nor am I surprised by what happened yesterday. . I am only surprised that it has taken this long for one or another sector of society being shat on to rise up in anger against their situation. Students were first this time, and because they are perceived to be mainly middle class and in a privileged situation in the first place, many heap scorn on them. Soon other groups will make their voices heard, from other sectors of society: and because the Labour Party has utterly betrayed the people who created it and left an aching void filled only by the ineffective whining of a few Trots, the main beneficiaries as things stand will be the likes of the BNP, which is downright obscene. The Left in this country is a bloody disgrace.

I don't often take part in political threads on here, because i spend loads of the rest of my life talking poitics, and this is an Albion forum. But I did want to make that point.

 

[Castello]

It may not change things. Or it may change things. Who knows, the point is that the Government has seen the strength of feeling. Just look at the poll tax riots. A big factor in bringing Thatcher down. Mob behaviour, does on occasion, help promote positive policy outcomes. In fact there are some parallels here, Poll tax was scrapped for a scheme took into account the ability to pay. Not a million miles away from the type of system I'm sure many students would like to see implemented.

We may not be in for a season of riots. I'm certainly not expecting one.

As someone who was actively involved in the anti poll tax campaign, between March 1st 1990 in Haringey and 30th March in Trafalgar Square there was a month of rioting throughout the UK. Even then no one that was involved would claim this is what brought down Thatcher.

What brought down Thatcher was a whole section of society refusing to comply with paying the poll tax. This was aided by activists like myself going to court and defending the non payers, talking to peole about why the poll tax was beatable and a generally well organised campaign against the Poll tax.

What the riots did do was mainly 2 things. It made clear to everyone which side the Labour Party was on, and that we couldnt rely on them to help us. This made clear that direct action was the only course open.

Secondly it helped to inspire ordinary people see that there was a strength of anger beyond what they themselves thought. That gave them the courage to stand up and be counted.

This isnt rhetoric, its based upon a real experience of having been there and done it.

As for whether we will have a season of riots, please note i am careful not to predict one. Riots are impossible to organise and even harder to predict. What I am saying from personal experience of discussing the current situation is that there is a lot of anger around towards all politicians. The only other time Ive felt this level of anger and frustration was in 1990.