How thick are students...

[Questions]

So are we all agreed a degree means absolutely f*** all these days anyway so there was no need to protest atall?

It means as much today as it always did. The courses have changed somewhat to follow a changing market but are just as vocational as ever.

 

[Biscuit]

I am not surprised by this, nor am I surprised by what happened yesterday. . I am only surprised that it has taken this long for one or another sector of society being shat on to rise up in anger against their situation. Students were first this time, , and because they are perceived to be mainly middle class in a priveleged situation in the first place, many heap scorn on them. Soon other groups will make their voices heard, from other, sectors of society...

I totally agree with this.

 

[Castello]

Well said.
Certain people in the City, quite calculatingly and deliberately, gambled with
OUR money for their own personal gain and lost: this along with similar activity in America and elsewhere, is the root and branch of the financial crisis which we now face.

In doing this they did nothing 'illegal' (which shows the whole anarchic rottenness of the economic system under which we live) and we are now expected to bail them out, with the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised - all easy targets with no voice - at the top of the list, and the unemployed (many of them unemployed because of the crisis brought on by the short sellers) expected to work for their dole, while the people who caused the mess continue to rake in their bonuses and get off scot free.

I am not surprised by this, nor am I surprised by what happened yesterday. . I am only surprised that it has taken this long for one or another sector of society being shat on to rise up in anger against their situation. Students were first this time, and because they are perceived to be mainly middle class and in a privileged situation in the first place, many heap scorn on them. Soon other groups will make their voices heard, from other sectors of society: and because the Labour Party has utterly betrayed the people who created it and left an aching void filled only by the ineffective whining of a few Trots, the main beneficiaries as things stand will be the likes of the BNP, which is downright obscene. The Left in this country is a bloody disgrace.

I don't often take part in political threads on here, because i spend loads of the rest of my life talking poitics, and this is an Albion forum. But I did want to make that point.

Funnily enough Attila the first time I saw you was in the Red Rose club in Seven Sisters Road around 1990. May have been a bit before that. It was the year that Albion lost in the play off final to Notts County.

Its good to see that after all this time weve both stuck to our guns

 

[m20gull]

I am not surprised by this, nor am I surprised by what happened yesterday. . I am only surprised that it has taken this long for one or another sector of society being shat on to rise up in anger against their situation. Students were first this time, and because they are perceived to be mainly middle class and in a privileged situation in the first place, many heap scorn on them.

Who's being shat on? Students?

There's some perception that money is being taken away from them. That's simply not true of the tuition fees issue. It's just changing slightly the way that a tax is raised to pay for a centrally-funded system. The high level of university education has to be paid for somehow and this is moving to a progressive tax on those that benefit. The privileged middle-class will pay for their tertiary education. The poor will pay for their tertiary education but only if it's successful. It does not stop anyone from enjoying the education; it just asks them to pay for some of it (not all of it, just some).

And in doing so gives the world-class institutions in the UK a bit more money to compete internationally for research.

The reduced funding is another issue entirely.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Well said.
Certain people in the City, quite calculatingly and deliberately, gambled with
OUR money for their own personal gain and lost: this along with similar activity in America and elsewhere, is the root and branch of the financial crisis which we now face.

No-one is denying that. The govt. are trying to fix things and take us away from bankruptcy.

What is your solution?

 

[attila]

No-one is denying that. The govt. are trying to fix things and take us away from bankruptcy.

What is your solution?

Make the people who caused the crisis (the bankers and the banks) pay for it - rather than the rest of us. They are getting off scot free. But my solution implies a government with the guts and spine to take them on. This government has considerably less guts and spine than a freshly filleted sole.

 

[Stoo82]

Make the people who caused the crisis (the bankers and the banks) pay for it - rather than the rest of us. They are getting off scot free. But my solution implies a government with the guts and spine to take them on. This government has considerably less guts and spine than a freshly filleted sole.

So you tax the Banks.

Who will pay in the end?

 

[m20gull]

Make the people who caused the crisis (the bankers and the banks) pay for it - rather than the rest of us. They are getting off scot free.

How much do you think the banks can afford to pay? And whose money do they pay it with?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Make the people who caused the crisis (the bankers and the banks) pay for it - rather than the rest of us. They are getting off scot free. But my solution implies a government with the guts and spine to take them on. This government has considerably less guts and spine than a freshly filleted sole.

I agree in principle.

Using a football model, we (fans) grumble about so much money being concentrated at the top and so much money leaking out of the game into the hands of very few. There seems to be very little grumbling when it comes to our world of finance, unless things go wrong.

I don't think anything is going to change as they will be back and generating huge sums of money for the country and we will be reliant upon them as we don't make anything.

I think it is unfair to lay all the blame at the feet of the present govt. not having balls. All over the world, govts are in the pockets of big, money spinning corporations/monstrosities.

I do feel that we need a short term solution to raise capital, but there is no quick fix. How do we go about making our financial sector pay for their mistakes?

Sadly, I don't think we are anywhere near seeing a long term solution and things will go back to normal once we start to chip away at the deficit. That is what happened last time.

I'm rambling and I don't have a solution.

 

[attila]

So you tax the Banks.

Who will pay in the end?

Well, if you allow the banks to operate as private concerns as normal (even though our money has bailed them out and enabled them to function) the of course, they will find a way of passing such taxes on to us. If, however, you nationalise the banks (as has already been done - if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one) and operate them in the interests of the population as a whole rather than a greedy few, then it's the greedy few who will pay - as they deserve to.

 

[m20gull]

Well, if you allow the banks to operate as private concerns as normal (even though our money has bailed them out and enabled them to function) the of course, they will find a way of passing such taxes on to us. If, however, you nationalise the banks (as has already been done - if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one) and operate them in the interests of the population as a whole rather than a greedy few, then it's the greedy few who will pay - as they deserve to.

Or the banks and bankers go somewhere else.

 

[Stoo82]

Well, if you allow the banks to operate as private concerns as normal (even though our money has bailed them out and enabled them to function) the of course, they will find a way of passing such taxes on to us. If, however, you nationalise the banks (as has already been done - if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one) and operate them in the interests of the population as a whole rather than a greedy few, then it's the greedy few who will pay - as they deserve to.

you want to nationalsie a successful bank?

Where will that end? If you can do that, then you can do it to any company. And that is bad for business. No competition will lead to higher prices.

 

[attila]

As I said, if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one. As for the banks and bankers going somewhere else, you'd have to have legislation stopping them being able to do that, of course!
It does mean a rather different approach to that of Cameron and Smeg. I am aware of that

 

[Stoo82]

Or the banks and bankers go somewhere else.

Which, on a seperate issue, is why all the shipping companys left London and came here in 2002.

Now Greece is thinking of cashing in on higher taxes. The shipping companys are all going to bugger off to Singapore and Switzerland!

 

[Stoo82]

As I said, if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one. As for the banks and bankers going somewhere else, you'd have to have legislation stopping them being able to do that, of course!
It does mean a rather different approach to that of Cameron and Smeg. I am aware of that

You would like all things run by the government?

 

[m20gull]

As I said, if you can nationalise a failing bank, you can nationalise a successful one. As for the banks and bankers going somewhere else, you'd have to have legislation stopping them being able to do that, of course!
It does mean a rather different approach to that of Cameron and Smeg. I am aware of that

Nationalisation and restraint of trade? Hmm, can't say I'm tempted by the vision.

 

[attila]

You would like all things run by the government?

No, not all things. Not Coldplay or the Raj Palace takeaway in Mile Oak (hugely recommended, by the way!) But, big, important, economic things, like banks and railways, for instance, yes. A fair, non corrupt, democratically elected government, of course.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

You would like all things run by the government?

The one he doesn't trust.

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

The Left in this country is a bloody disgrace.

.

The left, disorganised? Judeans Peoples Front anyone?

 

[Stoo82]

No, not all things. Not Coldplay or the Raj Palace takeaway in Mile Oak (hugely recommended, by the way!) But, big, important, economic things, like banks and railways, for instance, yes. A fair, non corrupt, democratically elected government, of course.

I do understand where you are comming from, and, in a way do agree with your politics but even fair, non corrupt democratically elected governments are crap at running stuff!

I know why government should take over failing businesses (of any type), but why successful ones? They are , by defention, successful!