How LARGE will Cameron's failure be ?

[The Large One]

One of the reasons behind a school getting a charitable status is so that it can afford to offer bursaries to (usually intelligent) children who come from families that can not afford to send them there.

 

[The Large One]

I disagree , standards would be dragged downwards and im sure you know it, i was talking to a teacher on staurday who teaches at a fairly rough comprehensive, at any one time in his class of 30 there is a maximum of 6 who actually want to learn and do well, can you imagine kids from brighton college going into a class and turning that round , or being bullied into submission ?

Weirdly enough, I fully agree.

 

[Dandyman]

ffs go back to the bunker with brown and the rest of new labours clowns and enjoy the last few days of a failed goverment dying on its knees

Not only are you misunderstanding the point of the thread you are more than a little off beam about my voting intentions.

 

[Tooting Gull]

One of the reasons behind a school getting a charitable status is so that it can afford to offer bursaries to (usually intelligent) children who come from families that can not afford to send them there.

Apart from being the minimum they can possibly get away with, and also simply PR red herring fodder chucked out for the gullible, it's not exactly the winning argument though is it? If the state schools were better, they wouldn't need to.

And I doubt the level of bursaries covers the £100m the tax breaks save. In the test cases last year the school(s) which lost their status were giving less than 1 per cent of places as bursaries. I think their main claim for being a charity and everything that entails was that they lent their hall to the British Legion once.

 

[Husty]

Good point, politicians aren't very brave these days.

I would like to see Labour really take on the public schools. There is something happening with the Charities Commission at the moment to justify their status, but it is very weak, and more aimed at forging links with local comps. My natural inclination would be to ban them, but I can see that might be difficult.

However, what I've never really understood is how they get charitable status, which gives them relief from taxes (corporation tax and others), and is therefore basically ordinary taxpayers subsidising the education of the already very rich. Ludicrous, and the total opposite of what a progressive taxation system is designed for.

So if Labour abolished charitable status they would at least have to operate like the businesses they are, they'd be forced to put fees up, many would go to to the wall and there would only be a few left. All those other kids, many from very pro-education and motivated families, would be spread across the system, and there would be a raising of the general standard. Then you start a virtuous circle. If the standard in comprehensives is going up, there is less need to have/attend fee-paying schools.

Labour would win a lot more votes than they would lose from that policy. Most of the people against it would never vote Labour anyway. And if it's not your idea of a good policy, and for some on here it wouldn't be, at least you'd have a straight choice between the parties instead of all the gutless, mealy-mouthed stuff currently.

As someone who went to downlands (state) and now Hurst College (public) I think i have a fairly unique look at the situation, I wont talk about the charitable status, I for one am in favour of it as without it I would not have the scholarship allowing me to go there, but I think your wrong about the standard rising by throwing them into state schools, throughout my year (12), a large percent are no more educationally inclined than at any point during my time at downlands, parent pressure and a rigorous punishment system keep them in place, but throw them into a state school an you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from anyone else.The number who are truely motivated to learn are not large enough to raise the critical mass that you speak of, most are just ordinary teenagers who happen to have rich parents.

 

[User removed 4]

Well, for the second time recently (after the newspaper fascists thread) I agree with you - this time about the discipline problem. But I'm not quite ready to settle for 'no hope', it's too important.

perhaps 'no hope' was too strong a description, but for all the money that has been spent on schools, its been wasted because of the lack of discipline stopping a lot of kids from learning.

 

[Chicken Run]

Anyone who thinks it's a done deal with Clegg and co getting into bed with the Labour party ought to check out 18mins 10 secs through 18 mins 30 secs, i see no friend there!

BBC - BBC Parliament Programmes - Prime Ministers Questions

 

[The Large One]

Apart from being the minimum they can possibly get away with, and also simply PR red herring fodder chucked out for the gullible, it's not exactly the winning argument though is it? If the state schools were better, they wouldn't need to.

And I doubt the level of bursaries covers the £100m the tax breaks save. In the test cases last year the school(s) which lost their status were giving less than 1 per cent of places as bursaries. I think their main claim for being a charity and everything that entails was that they lent their hall to the British Legion once.

You're talking about charitable status as a means of staving off a tax perk, which means they will lose that status. As with (for instance) REMF, every penny has to be meticulously accounted for, and every use justified in order to retain charitable status.

If used correctly (and I don't have any figures), schools' charitable status can work for the benefit for a fair few people, and not necessarily just for that school's pupils.

I only used bursaries and scholarships as one example.

 

[pork pie]

Tory LANDSLIDE

I agree. All this talk about hung parliaments etc. will make sure that everyone goes out to vote rather than not bothering. I am sure most people would rather have a new Conservative goverment than another term under the one eyed jock wanker.

 

[Chicken Run]

I agree. All this talk about hung parliaments etc. will make sure that everyone goes out to vote rather than not bothering. I am sure most people would rather have a new Conservative goverment than another term under the one eyed jock wanker.

I hope your right!

 

[pork pie]

Apart from being the minimum they can possibly get away with, and also simply PR red herring fodder chucked out for the gullible, it's not exactly the winning argument though is it? If the state schools were better, they wouldn't need to.

And I doubt the level of bursaries covers the £100m the tax breaks save. In the test cases last year the school(s) which lost their status were giving less than 1 per cent of places as bursaries. I think their main claim for being a charity and everything that entails was that they lent their hall to the British Legion once.

Personally, I think that everyone should have the choice of sending their children to public schools if they can afford to give their children the better education, and those who choose to, should be allowed to take what would have been spent on their children in state schools with them.

 

[Agent_Torpor]

Can we discuss how mom-frump his wife is? Or is that verboten?

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

I am sure most people would rather have a new Conservative goverment than another term under the one eyed jock wanker.

some insightful political debate. FINALLY.

 

[Don Quixote]

I agree. All this talk about hung parliaments etc. will make sure that everyone goes out to vote rather than not bothering. I am sure most people would rather have a new Conservative goverment than another term under the one eyed jock wanker.

People like you are just idiots. Can you not tell us why he is bad instead of just calling him scotish one eyed and a wanker?

 

[Napper]

If the Tories don't win, Cameron(rightly) will be an absolute laughing stock.

If they win he will be a laughing stock, if its hung he will be a laughing stock.

The bloke is a clown

 

[wellquickwoody]

If they win he will be a laughing stock, if its hung he will be a laughing stock.

The bloke is a clown

That's it, UKIP for me, not voting for a bloody Charlton fan!

 

[hart's shirt]

Not really Darren. I don't feel the need to converse with someone that has told me to f*** off for no reason. And as a mod what is a rude " f*** off ". As his " f*** off " is not considered rude by you thats ok but no doubt other people's " f*** off's " would be considered rude. I suggest it is not a problem because he told ME to f*** off but if he had told someone else to f*** off that was more in the clique or who you liked/respect more it would not be ok.

Melchett:

Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learned from being in the army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a major: got pooh-poohed; made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh -- he pooh-poohed it. Fatal error, because it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers, who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment -- morale totally destroyed ... by pooh-pooh!

 

[Storer68]

Just remember that Dave Cameron used to play for US. Without that he would be NOTHING

 

[franks brother]

What gets me about ALL main parties.
Labour say they will save 11 billion quid by economies in the public sector and the Cons scoff at it.
Then the Cons say they will save 6 billion quid from public sector and old Gurner Brown says they'll have to put up VAT.
Don't really know what that other mob will do cos old Cleggy says diff things to diff audiences.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Just remember that Dave Cameron used to play for US. Without that he would be NOTHING

And he missed a few open goals as well I seem to remember.

BOOM BOOM