Hogan - A tragic case

[the full harris]

Read it again then TFH. I said the family and the local authorities. FFS. If your mum or dad or whoever was going down hill due to mental health would you not realise? If your family had a history of mental illness would the authorites not keep a closer eye on you? I think you will find the answer in both cases is yes or at least they have noticed but have neglected to act on it. That is where the problems arise from. It is the same with the majority of kiddy fiddling that goes on. Most of the time Kiddy fiddlers used to suffer the same thing as kids and thus see it as the norm. The number of families that have 3rd or 4th generation fiddlers in the family is astonishing. Yes, in my book it is worse than what has happened in this case but when you are aware of a problem you should hold your hands up and admit you could have done more to stop it.

I agree with a lot of what you say, though the kiddy fiddling point is a little more complex than just 'they see it as the norm'.

I have to say I assumed that the man was already getting help from his family/authorities.

 

[the full harris]

Which views exactly are you surprised with then because I have never blamed him solely for what has happened and the only view that I strongly have in this case is that he is only showing remorse because he failed to kill himself at the same time which is nothing unusual in any suicide case files that have ever been realeased or studied.

I guess it must be that your view seems very cut and dried, very ready-to-blame. I'd have thought a professional such as yourself wouldn't be making such brash 'tabloid-esque' statements without knowing the case in detail.

 

[B.M.F]

I agree with a lot of what you say, though the kiddy fiddling point is a little more complex than just 'they see it as the norm'.

I have to say I assumed that the man was already getting help from his family/authorities.

The Kiddy fiddling bit was in basic terms in that the majority of cases are ingrained into them which is awful and is of course not always the case. I believe the wife has been quoted saying he was a loving parent etc but also admitted she knew he had problems and did not do anything to act upon these concerns. Of course this is a lot easier to say when you have not had to do anything like sectioning a friend or family member for their on good but in my view it is something that has to be done. I also do believe that the authorities knowing he was clinically dperessed should have done more to monitir the situation which again I agree was difficult as he was in a foreign country but I still believe they could / should have done more.

 

[B.M.F]

I guess it must be that your view seems very cut and dried, very ready-to-blame. I'd have thought a professional such as yourself wouldn't be making such brash 'tabloid-esque' statements without knowing the case in detail.

That is just my personal feelings about this case and does go in line with similar events that have occured in the past.

 

[the full harris]

The Kiddy fiddling bit was in basic terms in that the majority of cases are ingrained into them which is awful and is of course not always the case. I believe the wife has been quoted saying he was a loving parent etc but also admitted she knew he had problems and did not do anything to act upon these concerns. Of course this is a lot easier to say when you have not had to do anything like sectioning a friend or family member for their on good but in my view it is something that has to be done. I also do believe that the authorities knowing he was clinically dperessed should have done more to monitir the situation which again I agree was difficult as he was in a foreign country but I still believe they could / should have done more.

Yes, kiddy fiddling is something I had to read a lot about last year, I (unusually) know a fair amount about that (well as much as you can from books and journals).

But anyway, back on subject: mental health treatment on the NHS is woefully under-resourced. From experience, I believe the only sufficiently effective route is private treatment but at £50 upwards per session, not many people can afford it. So, yes, I agree with you that the authorities could do more but they actually can't because they simply don't have the resources and families who can't afford the treatment can't do anything more either. For these reasons I found your comments harsh.

 

[the full harris]

That is just my personal feelings about this case and does go in line with similar events that have occured in the past.

Yes, but every cae is different. I can't possibly believe you know sufficient detail of this case to judge.

 

[B.M.F]

Yes, but every cae is different. I can't possibly believe you know sufficient detail of this case to judge.

I don't know for certain, it is just a feeling i have on this one. Will leave it at that but it is good to see 2 people can have a discussion without retorting with abuse.

 

[the full harris]

I don't know for certain, it is just a feeling i have on this one. Will leave it at that but it is good to see 2 people can have a discussion without retorting with abuse.

Yes, it was all rather civilised wasn't it! Out of interest, I'm nosy, are you currently employed in the mental health service and, if so, what area?

 

[B.M.F]

Yes, it was all rather civilised wasn't it! Out of interest, I'm nosy, are you currently employed in the mental health service and, if so, what area?

If you call LloydsTSB mental health then yes I am saying that others on here believe I should be sectioned

I do have friends and family that work in over 65 and under 65 for the Brighton Mental Health authority along with 2 social workers and a community care person.

 

[the full harris]

If you call LloydsTSB mental health then yes I am saying that others on here believe I should be sectioned

I do have friends and family that work in over 65 and under 65 for the Brighton Mental Health authority along with 2 social workers and a community care person.

Oh, ok. I misunderstood.

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Fall man 'tried to kill himself'

John Hogan said he was "mentally disorientated"
A man who fell from a hotel balcony in Crete with his two children in his arms, has attempted suicide in prison, his lawyer said.
John Hogan, 32, from Bradley Stoke, near Bristol, is charged with the murder of his son, attempted murder of his daughter and attempted suicide.

After appearing at a court in Neapoli he said he had no memory of the fall.

He said he was "mentally disorientated" due to his failing marriage and problems with his tiling business.

His son Liam, six, died on 15 August after falling 50ft from the hotel balcony while his daughter Mia survived but broke her arm.

He told Neapoli District Court in a written statement he had "exploded" when his wife threatened to leave him and take their two children with her.

Combined with stress from his tiling business, Mr Hogan said: "All of these things affected my conscience and mental functions, so when my wife indicated to me that she had decided to leave me I was overwhelmed by confusion.

"I was unable to bear the thought that I would live without my children."

Mr Hogan is in the psychiatric unit of Athens' Korydalous jail after initially being taken back to hospital.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Tried to top himself in prison today, according to the news. Oh well.

 

[smudge]

Nothing against Hari Kiri, but can't condone throw the bin lids out the window first!

 

[algie]

He needs to go to a hospital wing when they pass sentence so he can be monitored 24/7 for the rest of his life.We don't want him going to prison just so he can take the easier way out(hanging himself)No compassion from me for the most cowardly act he could of possibly done.Like i said before.I'm glad he lived just to see what it feels like the pain he has caused for all concern.At least the Greek government can support him and save our taxes for better things