Hillsborough Petition

[Falkor]

I don't feel the need to follow you around giving you abuse me old mucker.

I am not following you around you just seem to post stuff i disagree with, its as simple as that.

By the way what does the Bradford City fire have to do with this?

 

[Falkor]

are there documents to disclose? a simple freedom of information request would suffice, has this been refused or are they fishing?

Yes there was a request made by the BBC it was granted last month but now the government have said there going to appeal against the decision on the information being realised.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

shouty no i mean im willing to argue with you on your opinion just when people come in and spout one line sentces like f*** off to the poster or talking about the Bradford City fire that has no similarities to this what so ever

Fair enough. but before we start RIP to all those supporters that were just out to enjoy their team same as we do.
I think firstly if there was anything murky going on then one of the 3 governments we have had since would have bought it to light, its pretty clear that the actions of the police created the circumstances for the tragedy to occur, I am certain that they thought they were going to prevent injuries when they took the decision to open the gates.

It is also fairly clear that the supporters at the back were just trying to get in (like we would have in the same situation) and were completely unaware of what the consequences of their actions were for those at the front (anyone that has been caught in a crowd surge, even a little one will know how powerless you are to do anything)

And of course if either the police or the surging supporters knew what was coming they would have stopped their actions immediately.

I think the real mistakes by the police came at the point it became clear that people at the front were seriously starting to struggle, fearful of what they thought might be a pitch invasion or whatever they thought they lost vital,vital seconds in which time the problems were becoming exponentially more severe.

I dont believe for one minute some of the sensationalist BS that was printed in some of the media most notably the Sun (what were they thinking ?) If I had been a member of that crowd I would have made someone very sorry indeed for the disrespect they showed.

But at the end of the day if there is any information being withheld I would imagine it is more to do with 'little' mistakes by individuals rather than institutions.

Horrible thing but I dont think anyone person or group was "responsible"

Just my opinion, no offence intended

 

[luppers]

Sir Nigel, nice to read commonsense very good post that I totally agree with.

 

[Falkor]

Fair enough. but before we start RIP to all those supporters that were just out to enjoy their team same as we do.
I think firstly if there was anything murky going on then one of the 3 governments we have had since would have bought it to light, its pretty clear that the actions of the police created the circumstances for the tragedy to occur, I am certain that they thought they were going to prevent injuries when they took the decision to open the gates.

It is also fairly clear that the supporters at the back were just trying to get in (like we would have in the same situation) and were completely unaware of what the consequences of their actions were for those at the front (anyone that has been caught in a crowd surge, even a little one will know how powerless you are to do anything)

And of course if either the police or the surging supporters knew what was coming they would have stopped their actions immediately.

I think the real mistakes by the police came at the point it became clear that people at the front were seriously starting to struggle, fearful of what they thought might be a pitch invasion or whatever they thought they lost vital,vital seconds in which time the problems were becoming exponentially more severe.

I dont believe for one minute some of the sensationalist BS that was printed in some of the media most notably the Sun (what were they thinking ?) If I had been a member of that crowd I would have made someone very sorry indeed for the disrespect they showed.

But at the end of the day if there is any information being withheld I would imagine it is more to do with 'little' mistakes by individuals rather than institutions.

Horrible thing but I dont think anyone person or group was "responsible"

Just my opinion, no offence intended

None taken at all mate, i just think it stinks, they is lots of documentation regarding this, there now called the thatcher files.

Im not saying Pool fans were 100% innocent at all, they were not, but the police also had a major role to play in this, i mean they just opened the gates and let anyone walk in, wtf is that about it was clear as day it was going to end in disaster.

I feel there is a bit of a cover up going on, if the government really believe football fans were the reason behind this imo they would have let the information out straight away, yet we are still waiting, we get the green light for it to come out by the freedom of information act, then the government steam in and put the breaks on, it stinks in my eyes. Do you also think Liverpool football club its self would fight so hard for justice, the club has had issues in the past and accepted them but this they wont let die, there are reasons for this.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

con·spir·a·cy the·o·rynoun 
conspiracy theories, plural
A belief that some covert but influential organization is responsible for an unexplained event

 

[Falkor]

so the Taylor report was lies then LondonBlue

 

[Sussex Nomad]

rant
verb /rant/ 
ranted, past participle; ranted, past tense; ranting, present participle; rants, 3rd person singular present


Speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way

• - he was still ranting on about the unfairness of it all

 

[Falkor]

londonblue i guess your just very good at fishing i mean you dont actually give a reasoned response to anything just silly replies, i mean your first post said it all really.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

do you even know anything about it, or or just what ya read in the sun, f***ing moron, i dont have an issue with people on NSC i do have an issue with people that spout bollocks like this.

Reasoned response

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

None taken at all mate, i just think it stinks, they is lots of documentation regarding this, there now called the thatcher files.

Im not saying Pool fans were 100% innocent at all, they were not, but the police also had a major role to play in this, i mean they just opened the gates and let anyone walk in, wtf is that about it was clear as day it was going to end in disaster.

I feel there is a bit of a cover up going on, if the government really believe football fans were the reason behind this imo they would have let the information out straight away, yet we are still waiting, we get the green light for it to come out by the freedom of information act, then the government steam in and put the breaks on, it stinks in my eyes. Do you also think Liverpool football club its self would fight so hard for justice, the club has had issues in the past and accepted them but this they wont let die, there are reasons for this.

I agree if there was clear evidence of wrongdoing or even illegal activities by fans then they wouldn't be able to get the proof out fast enough. I just wonder what they could be witholding though ? we know they opened the gates, we know they were terribly slow to react and possibly even interfered with those trying to help initially.

Suppose 1 officer somewhere mistakenly put out a radio call along the lines of "they are trying to get out of the pens, stop them" which to be fair could conceivably have happened would he then be culpable for all of those deaths ? would you publish his name ? think about it, would you ? I'm not sure.

And then there may be the most cynical reason of all... are they witholding critical evidence in the hope that by delaying, if possible for years the release of information that they are then limiting any potential lawsuits... tbh I cant believe if this is the case that Blair would have disclosed everything on day one, after all he spent a decade blaming everything else on the previous government.

On the other hand I can't dispute your point. IF there is withheld and PERTINENT information then if not made public the families at least should have access to all the facts.


my fingers are knackered now, really should learn to type properly

 

[Lord Bracknell]

are there documents to disclose? a simple freedom of information request would suffice, has this been refused or are they fishing?

The government wants to refuse the simple FOI request.

It has been alleged that, before the facts of what happened had been established, Thatcher issued an instruction that no police were to be prosecuted.




The Press Association: Hillsborough papers release urged

Hillsborough papers release urged

(UKPA) – 38 minutes ago

The Government is coming under increasing pressure to release details of Margaret Thatcher's private Cabinet discussions on the Hillsborough football disaster.

More than 63,000 people have signed an e-petition on the Downing Street website calling for the release of ministerial papers relating to the 1989 tragedy in which 96 Liverpool fans died in a crush.

The signatories include footballer Michael Owen, the musician Billy Bragg, the actor Simon Pegg and the comedian Dara O Briain, The Times reported.

The paper said that there had been a surge of support after it was championed by Newcastle United footballer Joey Barton on his Twitter page.

It now looks likely to receive the 100,000 backers required to force MPs to consider staging a Commons debate on the issue.

The petition follows a ruling by the Information Commissioner Christopher Graham that the papers should now be made public.

The Cabinet Office has said it will appeal against the decision in order to allow the Hillsborough Independent Panel, established by the previous government to look into the circumstances and aftermath of the disaster, to oversee the disclosure of documents.

Copyright © 2011 The Press Association. All rights reserved.

 

[Falkor]

I think the fans being pulled up to the top stand and the surge wave you see in the videos of the crowd would tell that there is a major issue going on, i dunno mate it stinks to me, im not one for conspiracy theories, i hate all the rubbish about 9/11 and July 7th, but this stinks something rotten to me.

The information was clear and ready to come out, then the government stop it why, i have seen articles namely in the guardian about police amending officers statements. Possibly this had something to do with it. Im not sure, but its imo they have something to hide.

 

[Falkor]

Reasoned response

Erm you come in and started shouting of about disasters that A, had come to a conclusion and were resolved and B, had nothing to do with this issue, like i have asked you 3 times i think WHAT HAS THE BRADFORD CITY FIRE GOT TO DO WITH THIS its pretty clear you have no idea on the issue and just want to piss people of.

 

[Sir Nigel of Eagleshire]

I think the fans being pulled up to the top stand and the surge wave you see in the videos of the crowd would tell that there is a major issue going on, i dunno mate it stinks to me, im not one for conspiracy theories, i hate all the rubbish about 9/11 and July 7th, but this stinks something rotten to me.

The information was clear and ready to come out, then the government stop it why, i have seen articles namely in the guardian about police amending officers statements. Possibly this had something to do with it. Im not sure, but its imo they have something to hide.

If anyone has interfered with evidence then they should be hung out to dry, no question. night.

 

[Albion Dan]

I don't feel the need to follow you around giving you abuse me old mucker.

You do feel the need to invent attacks on Sainsburys stores in Camden though, which I checked the day after btw and the windows hadn't even smashed.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

What do you think the government (and which one ?) are covering up ?

The current government want to cover up what Thatcher said at the time.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Erm you come in and started shouting of about disasters

"Shouting about the disasters"

Can we have one for Bradford and Heysel too please... oh sorry they aren't as important.

I would conclude that you my friend need to stop diving in head first with your conspiracies and rants, abusing people that unfortunately have to share this forum with you and wind your neck in. I find you rather repulsive and have noticed that on many occasions if you are not agreed with you resort to personal abuse. It is the reason why I will not answer you, because I have the right not to. When you can act like an adult without keyboard warrior tendencies I shall respond to you in an adult fashion. Now stop trolling and get on with your conversations with others, because from here on in I simply cannot be bothered with you.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

You do feel the need to invent attacks on Sainsburys stores in Camden though, which I checked the day after btw and the windows hadn't even smashed.

I still find that terribly weird. I must be living on a parallel Camden.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

You do feel the need to invent attacks on Sainsburys stores in Camden though, which I checked the day after btw and the windows hadn't even smashed.

Also, did you not say, and I'm not trawling through posts that the windows had been smashed on the Monday and I said it was the Wednesday? And now you are saying they weren't smashed at all? Oh the joys of internet interaction.