Here we go mongering war agin

[Mammoth]

It's not just oil that makes Libya important. Uranium exists on the Libya/ Chad border. The mines were captured by French troops masquerading as Chadian soldiers during a bit of 90's 'gunboat' diplomacy. Subsequently run by all three countries, the french are there to stop the ore being exported to North Korea (again) or Iran.

 

[Elvis]

Well actually yes,...

Congo 17000
Darfur - 17000
Sudan - 9500
Ivory Coast 7500
Liberia - 10000

...and thats just current deployments in Africa,.... how many do you want sent?

No its not current deployments! the article is giving troop numbers since certain dates some going back as far as 2006, ie a acummlative totals.

The point I'm trying to make is that UN peacekeeping forces only have a productive outcome if they are spearheaded by super powers or countries with a respected armed forces.

If I were a Rebel leader involved in a Civil war, and the UN sent troops from Greece, Romania and Sweden etc.. it would not have the same effect on me as if I knew the US/UK forces were coming .

To me it's all abit of a half hearted effort.

 

[Mammoth]

No its not current deployments! the article is giving troop numbers since certain dates some going back as far as 2006, ie a acummlative totals.

The point I'm trying to make is that UN peacekeeping forces only have a productive outcome if they are spearheaded by super powers or countries with a respected armed forces.

If I were a Rebel leader involved in a Civil war, and the UN sent troops from Greece, Romania and Sweden etc.. it would not have the same effect on me as if I knew the US/UK forces were coming .

To me it's all abit of a half hearted effort.

Exactly- just look at Sierra Leone. There were thousands of Jordanians cowering in their barracks, and the Bangladeshi peacekeeping unit had been disarmed by the rebels.
My mate John was on a hercules taxiing at Brize Norton to fly down, but before he could get off the ground take off was aborted, cos peace had broken out, courtesy of the Royal Marines.

 

[somerset]

No its not current deployments! the article is giving troop numbers since certain dates some going back as far as 2006, ie a acummlative totals.

The point I'm trying to make is that UN peacekeeping forces only have a productive outcome if they are spearheaded by super powers or countries with a respected armed forces.

Nope, those are the current deployment figures,.. in fact in the Ivory Coast, a further 2000 have just been sent ( Jan 2011).

"To me it's all abit of a half hearted effort",.. crikey mate, either you want us to be war mongers, or you don't,.....

 

[clippedgull]

Libya has just declared a cease fire..so I guess that's good news.

 

[Easy 10]

Gadaffi's bottled it then ?
Blimey, thats a turn-up.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Gadaffi's bottled it then ?
Blimey, thats a turn-up.

No it's not.

It's how international diplomacy sometimes works.

What happens next, though, is anyone's guess. The important thing, in my opinion, is to let Arab diplomats take the lead.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

No conflict of interest exists then ? when the then US Vice President (a croney from the days of daddy Bush) & a major share holder in Halliburton, assists in setting up their puppet government.

Just out of interest, what has Halliburton got to do with the UK?

 

[Barrel of Fun]

Good news, for now. Makes a mockery (for now) of those suggesting we should 'let them get on with it'.

I see our Coalition govt have been blamed for something or other.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Just out of interest, what has Halliburton got to do with the UK?

Their UK subsidiary certainly attracts the attention of our Serious Fraud Office.

FT.com / UK - Probe into KBR role in Nigeria bribe case

Probe into KBR role in Nigeria bribe case
By Michael Peel in London

Published: August 7 2006 22:06 | Last updated: August 7 2006 22:06

A subsidiary of Halliburton is under investigation by the UK’s Serious Fraud Office over the US oil service company’s part in an alleged plot to pay more than $170m (£89m) of bribes to win billions of dollars of work at a giant Nigerian gas plant.

The SFO said it had carried out searches at business and residential premises as part of the probe into KBR, whose work on the project was underwritten partly by British government money.

The SFO’s action opens a fresh front in a high-profile case being investigated in the US, France and Nigeria. For part of the period under investigation, Halliburton was headed by Dick Cheney, the US vice-president.

The SFO gave few details about its probe, which it said opened in March. The searches were carried out on July 20 at three residential addresses and one company office in London, and at a house in Somerset.

Halliburton said it continued to co-operate and was “committed to getting resolution”. It declined further comment.

The Nigerian bribery allegations erupted three years ago, when a former executive of the consortium working on the gas plant told a French judge it had operated an offshore slush fund to win contracts since the mid-1990s. The consortium is quarter-owned by KBR, through its 55 per cent-controlled British joint venture, MW Kellogg.

More than $12bn has so far been invested in the gas plant, which supercools natural gas into liquid form so it can be shipped. Royal Dutch/Shell is the project’s biggest private shareholder, partnered by Total of France, Italy’s Eni and the Nigerian government.

In 2004, Halliburton severed links with two former employees including Jack Stanley, the former KBR chairman, for having taken “improper personal benefits” in connection with the project. Lee Kaplan, Mr Stanley’s lawyer, declined to comment.

■The bribery allegations centre on the construction of the Nigeria LNG natural gas liquefaction plant. The plant is 49 per cent owned by the Nigerian government, 25.6 per cent by Royal Dutch/Shell, 15 per cent by Total of France and 10.4 per cent by Italy’s Eni


What the SFO is investigating

■The SFO investigation comes after the launch of investigations by a French magistrate, the US Department of Justice and Nigeria’s Economic and Financial Crimes Commission

■Investigators are looking into allegations that TSKJ, the plant’s main construction consortium for the past decade, agreed between 1994 and 2003 to pay more than $170m in bribes to win billions of dollars of building work.

■One of the consortium members is MW Kellogg, a British joint venture in which Halliburton’s KBR subsidiary has a 55 per cent stake. The other companies involved are JGC of Japan, Technip of France and Italy’s Snamprogetti

■The payments in question were made by the consortium to an offshore company controlled by Jeffrey Tesler, a London-based lawyer, who has declined to comment. His lawyer has denied the money was used for bribes.

■The contracts are for services such as promoting the consortium, advising on contractors and helping to maintain good relations with the client, government authorities and business representatives. They include a no-bribery clause

■Halliburton has severed ties with two former employees including Jack Stanley, a former KBR chairman, for allegedly receiving ‘improper personal benefit’

■Halliburton has said minutes of internal meetings show the consortium had ‘considered payments to Nigerian officials’



.

 

[Simster]

No it's not.

It's how international diplomacy sometimes works.

What happens next, though, is anyone's guess. The important thing, in my opinion, is to let Arab diplomats take the lead.

I can understand your way of thinking, but I don't agree. The Arab nations are so fragmented and diverse, you'll have the same problem getting anything done as you would asking for the UN to deal with the problem.

I'd say the influential powers with historical ties should be taking the lead, and that means the Italians and Egyptians.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

I can understand your way of thinking, but I don't agree. The Arab nations are so fragmented and diverse, you'll have the same problem getting anything done as you would asking for the UN to deal with the problem.

I'd say the influential powers with historical ties should be taking the lead, and that means the Italians and Egyptians.

Either way, I think we agree that it's not the wisest of tactics to have the next move made by the UK. The Arab League is not a complete shambles. This crisis (and recent events in other Arab countries) is an opportunity for the League to re-assert its potentially very valuable role in the region. They should take it.

 

[Simster]

Either way, I think we agree that it's not the wisest of tactics to have the next move made by the UK. The Arab League is not a complete shambles. This crisis (and recent events in other Arab countries) is an opportunity for the League to re-assert its potentially very valuable role in the region. They should take it.

I simply don't trust the Arab League. Arabian nations are very very far from united as they are separated by disparate wealth (some of the richest and some of the poorest nations are Arabian) and by the way they are governed (miltary juntas, Royal families, fledgling democracies) that forming any sort of consensus on an issue which needs dealing with NOW is going to be impossible.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Their UK subsidiary certainly attracts the attention of our Serious Fraud Office.

Which is why they are irrelevant to the UK's involvement in any decision making when it comes to policies.

 

[Pavilionaire]

I can't see what the coalition have done wrong. They've fought for a no-fly zone and worked with France to get a UN resolution, to get 10 yes, 0 no and 5 abstentions in a short space of time is quite an achievment.

Personally, I'm quite glad we're actively doing something. Libya is on the Med only a few hundred miles away from the EU and Gaddafi has a track record for arming the IRA and blowing up planes over our airspace. The guy's a nutter, his people are at risk so I favour action.

 

[Easy 10]

No it's not.

It's how international diplomacy sometimes works.

Well, we've suddenly gone from Gadaffi stating yesterday in response to the UN resolution that "If the world gets crazy with us we will get crazy too. We will respond. We will make their lives hell because they are making our lives hell. They will never have peace.", to what is, on the face of it, a complete climbdown.

I appreciate we're not out of the woods yet, but this guy IS a maniac, so seeing him of all people declaring a ceasefire is something of a turn-up in my book.

 

[somerset]

so seeing him of all people declaring a ceasefire is something of a turn-up in my book.

1) He is buying time,... he will be putting his most expensive assets under cover.
2) He is still reported to be attacking.

 

[Superphil]

Bet everyone that backed them is so so pleased they did now !

f***ing delighted mate, we don't have those labour ***** in power, so whatever we have, it is better than them.

 

[BadFish]

I wish I trusted those who are making the decisions to send in troops. IF troops are being sent in with the purpose of peacekeeping and protecting innocents.

http://www.newstatesman.com/international-politics/2011/02/pilger-fascism-bahrain-egypt

 

[Sussex Nomad]

Why do we still think we are a 'superpower' when all we actually do is suck up to the money countries? I find it embarrassing, avoidable and to expensive. I for one are happy to see us blend into the insignificance of a Finland or Denmark and just remember our history, as Italy (Romans), Iran (Persia), et al do ... instead of spending x billions on trident or whatever, lets stay out of other countries and start building important things on our own shores, like hospitals and stuff. The West is so unbelievably hypocritical I do actually feel ashamed.