FOUR bombers.

[Lord Bracknell]

Understand one thing. The Muslim concept of death is not the same as ours. These bastard scum suicide bombers believe that as martyrs to an admittedly warped cause they will go straight to Allah who has SEVENTY TWO VIRGINS waiting for them.

The Koran uses the phrase "Abkarun". It translates just as well as "angels", rather than "virgins".

The promise of 72 angelic wives for all devout Muslims (not just martyrs) is found in early Islamic writings, such as the Book of Sunan (but not the Koran itself).

Curiously, the wish to misrepresent the teachings of Islam seems to be rather prevalent at the moment.

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

Storys of people seeing someone on that bus looking incredibly nervous and constantly checking a bag a few stops before it went up.

Source of this?

 

[JJ McClure]

The fact that there now appears to be British bred suicide bombers is a truely scary thing. How can people that live in this country grow to have such hatred of it that they are willing to destroy their fellow citizens?
Not only is it scary that they were suicide bombings but I also believe it is sad that in a way there is no longer anyone to punish for the crime. In effect these men have got away with it by carrying out their task in belief of Allah. My personal feeling is that without someone being caught, tried, and sentanced it is very hard to get closure. And for the families of the victims that must be horrible.

A claim made on the ITV news lastnight was that one of them had actually spent 6 months last year in Pakistan and Afganistan. Now Kabul is hardly your standard holiday destination, so why was someone like that not being kept an eye on?

 

[3gulls]

The fact that there now appears to be British bred suicide bombers is a truely scary thing. How can people that live in this country grow to have such hatred of it that they are willing to destroy their fellow citizens?
Not only is it scary that they were suicide bombings but I also believe it is sad that in a way there is no longer anyone to punish for the crime. In effect these men have got away with it by carrying out their task in belief of Allah. My personal feeling is that without someone being caught, tried, and sentanced it is very hard to get closure. And for the families of the victims that must be horrible.

A claim made on the ITV news lastnight was that one of them had actually spent 6 months last year in Pakistan and Afganistan. Now Kabul is hardly your standard holiday destination, so why was someone like that not being kept an eye on?

Reading between the lines, and considering the short time that it took to identify the group, they probably were being kept under observation. Unfortunately, the laws relating to the control of terror suspects, are being attacked before the Law Lords today. I do hope that the 10 do not have legal aid.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

[
A claim made on the ITV news lastnight was that one of them had actually spent 6 months last year in Pakistan and Afganistan. Now Kabul is hardly your standard holiday destination, so why was someone like that not being kept an eye on? [/B]

Because if he was seen to be watched, every human rights lawyer in England would be beating the doors of the Courts to stop it.

I really hope the Human Rights legislation does not get in the way of our Human Rights to be able to go about our daily lives without the threat of being blown to bits

 

[Meade's Ball]

If i went to Afghanistan for 6 months, would you want me watched too?
What if i went to America; a place stained with intolerance? Should i then be monitored?

 

[Gwylan]

Because if he was seen to be watched, every human rights lawyer in England would be beating the doors of the Courts to stop it.

I really hope the Human Rights legislation does not get in the way of our Human Rights to be able to go about our daily lives without the threat of being blown to bits

It's not so long ago that the Soviet bloc crumbled and the whole state surveillance apparatus was dismantled. It beggars belief that there are people in Britain who want to bring that sort of state control in over here.

Damn right we have human rights: we have human rights to go about our daily lives knowing that we can' be arrested on a no evidence, that if we are arrested that we have a right to legal representation and a right to know the charges and, finally, we have the right to a fair trial.

Of course, the police should monitor suspects carefully but I'm a bit wary of the idea that human rights should be suspended because of a perceived danger. Once we lose fundamental human rights, it's awfully hard to get them back. The state will take as much power as it can grab and it's important, no vital, to a liberal and free society that those checks remain.

Read Anne Funder's Stasiland for an idea of how a society where citizens were monitored around the clock and were subject to arrest on a whim functioned. And ask yourself if that is the sort of society that we really want.

 

[3gulls]

If i went to Afghanistan for 6 months, would you want me watched too?
What if i went to America; a place stained with intolerance? Should i then be monitored?

Yes, especially as you clearly have anti-US/Western views!

 

[London Irish]

Because if he was seen to be watched, every human rights lawyer in England would be beating the doors of the Courts to stop it.

I really hope the Human Rights legislation does not get in the way of our Human Rights to be able to go about our daily lives without the threat of being blown to bits

If you create anti-terror legislation that is little more than racial profiling that harrasses many innocent British Asians, you will create more sympathy for extremist fundamentalism in Britain, and will in effect be doing Osama bin Laden's work for him. That's the dumb George Bush way to fight terrorism - kill a hundred terrorists, create a thousand more.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Yes, especially as you clearly have anti-US/Western views!

Fair enough.
Or you could just look at my holiday snaps.

 

[3gulls]

If you create anti-terror legislation that is little more than racial profiling that harrasses many innocent British Asians, you will create more sympathy for extremist fundamentalism in Britain, and will in effect be doing Osama bin Laden's work for him. That's the dumb George Bush way to fight terrorism - kill a hundred terrorists, create a thousand more.

Dead is dead! If the security forces had been allowed to take-out the IRA, the problem would have been resolved by now. But oh no, Blair lets them out and we get 60 police injured last night. I would rather have GWB as President than some mamby pamby Liberal.

 

[3gulls]

Fair enough.
Or you could just look at my holiday snaps.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

If you create anti-terror legislation that is little more than racial profiling that harrasses many innocent British Asians, you will create more sympathy for extremist fundamentalism in Britain, and will in effect be doing Osama bin Laden's work for him. That's the dumb George Bush way to fight terrorism - kill a hundred terrorists, create a thousand more.

hang on....

Gwynlan spoke of "perceived threat"

sat at my desk on Thursday morning, dealing with extremely scared people in London, the threat was anything but " percieved". It was an actual threat. tell the families of the 70odd who died and 700 people who are injured that there is a perceived threat, to them the threat is actual.

With all due respect, LI, peple with views similar to yours bitched about CCTV being one step too far, yet how did the police find out who these people are...primerily through CCTV at Kings Cross...yes it didnt stop them, but by finding out about them, it may just have put doubts into other people's mind possibly looking to do the same...we do not know of course and that is conjecture.

So as you have all the answers what would you do to stop this happening again?

 

[Gwylan]

Dead is dead! If the security forces had been allowed to take-out the IRA, the problem would have been resolved by now.

I believe that was approach taken by Cromwell - didn't work very well, did it?

 

[London Irish]

Yes, especially as you clearly have anti-US/Western views!

You're going to need a bigger police force then, because there is a lot of us "traitors" about. In September I'm getting a flight to Malta, which has a sizeable, uh oh, Muslim population, to attend an, uh oh, Irish wedding. Once my Thomas Cook booking went through, I noticed the Department of Homeland Security raised their terror alert from "Elevated" to "High".

 

[Gwylan]

hang on....

Gwynlan spoke of "perceived threat"

sat at my desk on Thursday morning, dealing with extremely scared people in London, the threat was anything but " percieved". It was an actual threat. tell the families of the 70odd who died and 700 people who are injured that there is a perceived threat, to them the threat is actual.

I'm not diminishing the effect of the bombs for one instant. Of course they were real but you can't use that as an excuse to justify the suspension of human rights for everyone.

What would you have, police picking people up from the streets because they might be planning a bomb? And where does it stop? Muslims because they might be suicide bombers? The Irish because they might be IRA. Vegetarians because they might be animal rights activists? Christians because they might want to bomb abortion clinics? All these groups have in the past decade carried out real bombings but I'd be loath to see them picked off the streets just because they might commit a crime in the future.

 

[Simster]

hang on....

Gwynlan spoke of "perceived threat"

sat at my desk on Thursday morning, dealing with extremely scared people in London, the threat was anything but " percieved". It was an actual threat. tell the families of the 70odd who died and 700 people who are injured that there is a perceived threat, to them the threat is actual.

With all due respect, LI, peple with views similar to yours bitched about CCTV being one step too far, yet how did the police find out who these people are...primerily through CCTV at Kings Cross...yes it didnt stop them, but by finding out about them, it may just have put doubts into other people's mind possibly looking to do the same...we do not know of course and that is conjecture.

So as you have all the answers what would you do to stop this happening again?

The use of the word "perceived" is fair as far as I can see. 10,000,000 people live or work in London, and about 500 were affected appallingly by the bombs. Maybe that figure rises to 1,000 at most if you consider all London terror incidents in the past 15 years.

So in 15 years, you have a 0.01% (1 in 10,000) chance of being in any way affected by bombings. It seems to be there's a higher chance of you being killed by a wasp sting.

 

[3gulls]

You're going to need a bigger police force then, because there is a lot of us "traitors" about. In September I'm getting a flight to Malta, which has a sizeable, uh oh, Muslim population, to attend an, uh oh, Irish wedding. Once my Thomas Cook booking went through, I noticed the Department of Homeland Security raised their terror alert from "Elevated" to "High".

Please keep up Paddy, the question related to spending six months in Afganistan, where nobody could have any legitimate business that the Goverment was not interested in. I'm sorry, but a visit to Malta hardly qualifies you for having your passport looked at properly even.

 

[looney]

I've wondered that about the female suicide bombers as well.

It is true what bhaexpress has said because that is in the Koran where it says 'kill the infidel'

The vast majority of Muslims disown that part completely.

There are various references about violence to non beleivers, most with caveats but most Muslims are not scolars neither are non-beleivers.


What it actually says is Kill or convert the unbeleivers, This is an islamic obligation. One of many that would make the average brits skin crawl.

Most Muslims interpet this by "Convert by example" live a good life. Sounds like a cop out but keeps em peaceful.

The Islamic world has periodically swung between peace and war, most muslims ancestors were forcibly converted 1,500 years after Mohammed died and they charged out of Arabia slaying etc.
Then there was the Mogul Khan dynasty.

It also obliges men to beat disobediant wives. There are no strictures how like there are in punishments for men who break the law(whipping).

 

[looney]

I believe that was approach taken by Cromwell - didn't work very well, did it?

Yes it did, later uprisings were results of later uprising. What do you percive Cromwells objectives in Ireland were?