For Anyone Thinking Of Voting Conservative...

[Gully]

I have a mate in housing who told me to snap up my current house as he said that local authority property between 1950 and 1964 was built better than any property before or since.

I would agree with you about older property being better, my first house was built in around 1840 and I would expect it to be standing for another 170 years, my current one is just over 100 years old and seems to have been built pretty well...I hope to be living here for sometime yet! Contrast that with some of the housing estates thrown up in the last 15-20 years...I know that builders have to adhere to certain standards, but if most of that lasts for 50 years I will be amazed.

 

[cunning fergus]

Germany seems to get by OK.

I guess that depends on what you are referring to? A parliament without a majority was not all beer and sausage following the Bruning Administration!

 

[drew]

A lot of people on here and in general blame Thatcher for everything for all the ills we face. Nowadays it is almost a default position for some people on the left and that is "idiotic" thinking, she left power 20 years ago and "their" party have been in power for the last 13 years and yet Labour do virtually nothing to overturn her laws.

I am just trying to give a few examples of laws that could potentially be overturned and you know that is what I am trying to do. If the political will was there you could re-nationalise everything for e.g but Labour don't and the reason why they don't is because on a lot of things (not all, but a lot), she was wait for it, right in her thinking!

I think a lot of people go on about Thatcher being evil because it is equating someone to an ideology where those at the top had no empathy for those that were the victims of their actions. Yes, the unions needed to be reigned in but not annihilated. There has already been a good example of what could have been done with regard to introducing new industries into the areas to be affected by pit closures. As for re-nationalisation, we live in a global economy and financial services are crucial. Unfortunately, nationalisation would probably be very counter productive because of a loss of confidence by the markets in the UK. We have seen how susceptible to confidence the markets can be over the last two years.

Anyway, Labour did nationalise Network Rail when it was needed.

 

[Gwylan]

I guess that depends on what you are referring to? A parliament without a majority was not all beer and sausage following the Bruning Administration!

Blimey, that's a bit of an oddball example. There were some rather special circumstances there.

That's a bit like saying the state should never take children into care because of King Herod.

 

[warsaw]

I am surprised that after 13 years the Labour Party has chosen to focus its campaign entirely on trying to create a climate of fear about a Tory government. Barely a word on what they have achieved. Yes I know that the state of the country's finances is now dire (due to the banks), and I can even agree that maybe we overspent, and some was wasted, and there will be room for efficiency savings.

However if you are a Tory who has stated on this board that the Labour Government has been a 'disaster' you are now invited to lay into the list below, and tell us why increased school funding, extra nurses and doctors, police, shiny new schools and hospitals, the minimum wage, and gaining peace in Northern Ireland are a problem to you

Oh and by the way I am voting Lib Dem for tactical reasons.

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

10. Employment is at its highest level ever. (NOT NOW THANKS TO THE BANKS)

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Record number of students in higher education.

19. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

20. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

21. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

22. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

23. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

24. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

25. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

26. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

27. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

28. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

29. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

30. Banned fox hunting.

31. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

32. Free TV licences for over-75s.

33. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

34. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

35. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

36. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

37. Free eye test for over 60s.

38. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

39. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

40. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

 

[cunning fergus]

Blimey, that's a bit of an oddball example. There were some rather special circumstances there.

That's a bit like saying the state should never take children into care because of King Herod.

Well I wouldn't disagree that it an extreme example. Fact is that its still true; as far as a hung parliament is concerned Germany has not always 'got by OK'.

 

[Gully]

41. Allowed the Bank of England to set interest rates.

42. Civil Partnerships.

 

[beorhthelm]

I am surprised that after 13 years the Labour Party has chosen to focus its campaign entirely on trying to create a climate of fear about a Tory government. Barely a word on what they have achieved.

indeed, they'd rather invent things the Tories might cut (despite counter-statements they wont). one might argue some of those points, debate Labours input to some, question their value, their true benefit, but at least a list is there. more than Labour party central has done.

dead party, doesnt even know how to run an election. you do have to wonder if theres a strategy to lose, get rid of Brown, let the Tories take the pain on the economy then come back in 4 years time.

 

[Greyrun]

I am surprised that after 13 years the Labour Party has chosen to focus its campaign entirely on trying to create a climate of fear about a Tory government. Barely a word on what they have achieved. Yes I know that the state of the country's finances is now dire (due to the banks), and I can even agree that maybe we overspent, and some was wasted, and there will be room for efficiency savings.

However if you are a Tory who has stated on this board that the Labour Government has been a 'disaster' you are now invited to lay into the list below, and tell us why increased school funding, extra nurses and doctors, police, shiny new schools and hospitals, the minimum wage, and gaining peace in Northern Ireland are a problem to you

Oh and by the way I am voting Lib Dem for tactical reasons.

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

10. Employment is at its highest level ever. (NOT NOW THANKS TO THE BANKS)

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Record number of students in higher education.

19. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

20. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

21. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

22. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

23. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

24. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

25. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

26. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

27. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

28. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

29. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

30. Banned fox hunting.

31. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

32. Free TV licences for over-75s.

33. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

34. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

35. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

36. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

37. Free eye test for over 60s.

38. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

39. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

40. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

1.Ruined pensions
2.Massive council tax increase
3.Huge rise in business rates
4.Fall in social mobility
5.Growth in the gap between rich and poor
6.Illegal wars
7.Increase in drug and alcohol problems
8. Threefold increase in incapacity benefit claimants
9.Over 8million people economically inactive
10. Stealth taxes
11. Debt burden
etc etc etc.

 

[Lush]

Thinking of voting Conservative?

 

[Barry Izbak]

I am surprised that after 13 years the Labour Party has chosen to focus its campaign entirely on trying to create a climate of fear about a Tory government. Barely a word on what they have achieved. Yes I know that the state of the country's finances is now dire (due to the banks), and I can even agree that maybe we overspent, and some was wasted, and there will be room for efficiency savings.

However if you are a Tory who has stated on this board that the Labour Government has been a 'disaster' you are now invited to lay into the list below, and tell us why increased school funding, extra nurses and doctors, police, shiny new schools and hospitals, the minimum wage, and gaining peace in Northern Ireland are a problem to you
.

That is a mighty impressive list I must admit.

It reminds me when I had a prolonged spend up and ran up a hideous credit card bill. It took me years to pay it all off.

The difference with the country's deficit is that that Scottish twat has run the bill up and now we are all going to have to pay it off.

Bye Bye Gordon. NOW FUCCK OFF

 

[Deleted User X18H]

Thinking of voting Conservative?

That actually makes me want to ejaculate.

 

[looney]

 

[Gwylan]

One of my favourite bloggers, Jack of Kent, has posted a very good blog on why he's voting Lib Dem

Jack of Kent: Why this ex-Tory Boy is voting Liberal Democrat

Note that Jack of Kent is a usually a Tory so this can't be dismissed as liberal/left propaganda - he makes some very cogent points.

 

[beorhthelm]

Note that Jack of Kent is a usually a Tory so this can't be dismissed as liberal/left propaganda - he makes some very cogent points.

Human rights act, drug policy and Libel reform? certainly not the normal grounds for voter choice.

on the issue of the Human rights act, i see absolutly no good reason why we cannot and should not have our own Bill of Rights, rather than rely on a foreign drafted set of rules. in the end it will amount to the same thing bar a few points, and if that means it is better respected in this country then opposed as imposed without scrutiny from our parliament, that can only be positive?

 

[Gwylan]

Human rights act, drug policy and Libel reform? certainly not the normal grounds for voter choice.

on the issue of the Human rights act, i see absolutly no good reason why we cannot and should not have our own Bill of Rights, rather than rely on a foreign drafted set of rules. in the end it will amount to the same thing bar a few points, and if that means it is better respected in this country then opposed as imposed without scrutiny from our parliament, that can only be positive?

I don't see why HRA and drug policy are odd. In the 1997 election, I voted for the Charter Party whose single issue was a charter to establish a Bill of Rights. There's a lot wrong with the HRA but it's the first attempt to establish a Bill of Rights since the 17th century so it does have that in its favour. I'd love us to have a Bill of Rights but it's not in the manifesto of the Tories or the Greens.

And a change in drug policy would be one of my first priorities if I were a dictator. The amount of money that we spend locking up druggies (and then encouraging them to commit crime when we release them) is obscene. We could free up thousands of prison places for violent criminals, save billions and free up police if we had a sensible drugs policy.

 

[Pavilionaire]

When you look at Warsaw's 40 point list it boils down to one thing: spending a load of money we haven't got.

 

[Lewes' best seagull]

Haha that's really good

 

[Dover]

OK I have read two thirds of this and I will give my two pence worth. I will be voting Labour for the following reasons. I lived in a town that was devastated with the last Conservative government. The local industry has been slowly dissolved because of their power at the time. The first was The Dover Engineering Company. OK the they made drain and manhole covers, but they relocated to China literally overnight. The coal pits were the second to go. Kent had three working mines, which were producing coal suitable for power stations which are still going, ad we now import the coal to fire them.
There was also the Ferry strike, during Thatchers reign. This just made another set of families split form one another, and European labour working on British ships.

The images of striking and "scabbing" families at war with one another has scarred me for possibly the rest of my life, and for that reason I could never vote Tory.

On that point off to bed in a mo and listening to the marvellous new Slash album.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Here goes


1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

Brought about by previous Tory policies and global economy

2. Low mortgage rates.

Ditto with above and rates set by B of E not government

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

Raising the wages of others thus leaving the bottom earners still at the bottom

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

Where? Plastic coppers with no powers maybe.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

Completely misleading crap. Serious crime at an all time high plus unreported crime (again misleading reported but somehow not "reportable"!) at an all time high. Detection rates also at an all time low. NEXT.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

Not by some on here!

7. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

Nothing's free, we are all paying for it, remember.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

Borrowed money

9. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching
assistants.

More revealing is the disparity between the 1st figure and the 2nd.......appears like job creation.

10. Employment is at its highest level ever. (NOT NOW THANKS TO THE BANKS)

No its not the figures are massaged. School leavers are not even recorded. All time high for people not employed but not claiming.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

Good

12. 32,000 more doctors.

GP's wages have double in the last few years but their hours greatly reduced. This wage raise was forced on local NHS Trust but their budgets to pay this increase reduced. I'm friendly one the local Trusts CE's very interesting.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

Not got rid of three levels of management above though.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

More bureaucracy and totally unfair on the English- case divide and rule.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

See above.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

Have you ever owed/run a small business? enough said

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

Nought for free!

18. Record number of students in higher education.

With less jobs at the other end. University is for the elite (academic) not for the masses. The more go the more the qualification is diluted.

19. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

In line with inflation just

20. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

OK

21. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

Yes and now the perpetrators get more rights than victims. GOOD WORK.

22. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

OK

23. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.

Cross party politics there I believe

24. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

See no 16. I've been a full time worker for years. Haven't had a holiday (time off) above three days for 9 years.

25. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

A f***ing load more put near it by the raiding of private pensions!!!

26. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

What is relative, to you or me?

27. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

Country can not afford to give it to people earning above £30 000

28. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

Built during a labour government with substandard materials.

29. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

OK

30. Banned fox hunting.

You are joking, right?

31. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

BY privatisation. Plus the Tories with real help from the unions managed to close all those nasty polluting shit holes up north.

32. Free TV licences for over-75s.

But why? Most can easily afford it.

33. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

OK

34. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

It was under Tories

35. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

Again why most can afford it.

36. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

So they can spunk it away when their 18, shit idea, a gimmick which again we can not afford.

37. Free eye test for over 60s.

Why?

38. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

No they just renamed some training. Hardly if any at all, indentured apprenticeships remain. That is complete bollocks. They are not apprenticeships. That's like calling some one who looks after pensions a pensions technician.

39. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

Are getting the picture now, WE CAN NOT AFFORD IT. FREE entry YES BUT SOME ONE HAS TO PAY FOR IT.

40. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

NO NO NO no.....no. If you had no money and couldn't pay your bills would you go and borrow some and give it to some one else? Thus leaving you in a more shit.