FAO: Anyone who wishes to show their support to students...

[fataddick]

Hi KneeOn, Dec 5th is the 18th anniversary of Charlton's first game back at The Valley, so I will be there hopefully with a suitably witty related placard (18 being the age most join Uni, Falmer being home to both the new stadium and our city's Unis). Don't get despondent from these cretins criticising you. Believe you me, come March 26th they will all be either (a) side-by-side with you on the big national demo/riot as they realise quite how the wave of cuts affect them, or (b) barricading themselves into their Daily Mail homes fearful that you are coming after them. They have more than three months to either grow a pair or accept they were born as ***** and will die as *****. Either way, who f***ing cares. Finally, youth has found its voice. That even newspaper columnists, union and party leaders are now - fearful of a wave of righteous anger they can't control - in favour of the demos/riots shows you how quickly things move these days. Don't let a bunch of dinosaurs who f***ing hate the lovely non-homophobic pro-active fans of FCUM because they sing a bit make you think all old people think like that. The old ***** on here are by and large grumpy backward right-wing long-left-Brighton-'cause-it's-too-liberal *****. And they are NOT represenative of the wider 'old' (25+ I guess, in your terms) demographic anywhere in the world, let alone Brighton. So protest, shout, agitate, educate, occupy, and rest assured that if and when the coaltion collapses and the government stands down next summer, these same old ***** will pretend it was them (via their grumpy e-mails) rather than you (by your marches, occupations and brave direction action) that made it so. The absolute best of luck, KneeOn, to you and all involved in the student protests. I doff my f***ing (Charlton not Albion) cap to you. At least twice x

 

[bhaexpress]

If britian became more technologically friendly we would be able to attract the businesses that the current crop of IT graduates need (at least those who havn't taken sys admin jobs), which we would be able to make up in tax providing GB with more money.

Hate to tell you but many companies aren't interested in IT Graduates as what they've been taught is out of date, they want experienced people. As for the transferable skills you talk about, believe it or not people don't need a university education to get them, most of us who haven't been in higher education manage. Actually, hither to most of we tax payers have been subsidising your education, thanks for that.

 

[Couldn't Be Hyypia]

Read the first three pages then lost interest because this thread has gone round in circles. Sadly Knee On (and you seem like a nice chap who knows how to form an argument) the older contributors to this thread may sound cynical to you, but they may have seen all this before. Students protest and good on them, but you are essentially parasites at this point in time and it's easy to be high minded. As someone said, in 25 years when you've seen a bit more and contributed something and experienced real work (hopefully), you'll realise that not everything is so black and white. There is ALWAYS compromise. Every cause believes it is the most important - and so they should. But there needs to be a balancing of the books. The student lobby have come up with no alternative plan - no constructive alternative. So how can you expect people to back you when in fact what you are saying is "We don't want to pay more, the money has to come from someone/somewhere else because we are the most important".

I'm 100% behind subsidised higher education - you're the guys that will pay for me when I'm old and incontinent (I'm 45 now). But I'm not for 50% of the population going to Uni. How can that be right? In effect, one more person going to Uni means that we're accepting people with less than average intelligence. Let's not kid ourselves that these "graduates" are going to be the bastions of our global economy of the future. It's a doss for many (and has been for ever), but it didn't used to be a freeloading three years for this many. System's wrong - not your fault. But don't be surprised when you don't get support from the older and (yes) wiser.

Of course you should protest - of course you won't get support from many of the generations ahead of you.

 

[bradley1]

But have the protests clash with work.

The third national day of action (although it'll actuall be the fourth for brighton because of Tuesdays march - this is the third nationally organized and designated day) takes place on the 5th of December. Thats a Sunday folks. I'm aware of peoples opinions on this matter and they vary widely from total support to being in the anti-student protest camp.

This is the link:

Third National Day of Action - Sunday 5th December 2010

It would be nice to see those who support our movement against cuts in general and those particularly in education.

If this isn't your cause, you don't care or you disagree then thats your view. Even if only one person from here goes, it'll be one more voice standing united.

NO IFS. NO BUTS. NO EDUCATION CUTS!

Unfotunately due to Brown and co this counrtry is in £4 Trillion of debt (Thats £65000 for each of us) so it needs to be reduced somehow. Money doesnt grow on trees so what is wrong with the present system whereby you get a loan and then repay it back on a low rate once you start work and earn a decent wage. Seems fair to me.

 

[attila]

Unfotunately due to Brown and co this counrtry is in £4 Trillion of debt (Thats £65000 for each of us) so it needs to be reduced somehow. Money doesnt grow on trees so what is wrong with the present system whereby you get a loan and then repay it back on a low rate once you start work and earn a decent wage. Seems fair to me.

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere. And, while the rest of us pay for their crisis, they intend to award themselves even more Christmas bonuses for screwing us over! That is the reality that their politician lackeys and press apologists consistently try and cover up, because if they accepted it the entire rotten system would be called into question. They are the people who should be paying for the crisis, not us!
Good on you all, and this (53 year old) will be there on the 5th to support you. Direct action is most certainly needed, just like it was from time to time during our fight to save the Albion - think on that, all those who oppose them - as with us, it's essential that nobody gets hurt, cos that is bloody stupid and counter productive. Best of luck. And you are just the first wave: when millions more people see for themselves just how their lives are being wrecked by greedy, profiteering scum, they will get just as angry as you. And no one will be able to call THEM 'middle class,' 'idealists' 'scroungers' or whatever - they will be ordinary, hard working people, whose lives have been destroyed by the greedy few......

 

[Franks Wild Years]

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere. And, while the rest of us pay for their crisis, they intend to award themselves even more Christmas bonuses for screwing us over! That is the reality that their politician lackeys and press apologists consistently try and cover up, because if they accepted it the entire rotten system would be called into question. They are the people who should be paying for the crisis, not us!
Good on you all, and this (53 year old) will be there on the 5th to support you. Direct action is most certainly needed, just like it was from time to time during our fight to save the Albion - think on that, all those who oppose them - as with us, it's essential that nobody gets hurt, cos that is bloody stupid and counter productive. Best of luck. And you are just the first wave: when millions more people see for themselves just how their lives are being wrecked by greedy, profiteering scum, they will get just as angry as you. And no one will be able to call THEM 'middle class,' 'idealists' 'scroungers' or whatever - they will be ordinary, hard working people, whose lives have been destroyed by the greedy few......

Couldn't agree more, well said that poet.

 

[Superphil]

and the very rich (on the basis that they're loaded) get to go to Uni, spitting on the middle class but more importantly the upper working class .

In that sentence you lose so much sympathy (all of mine). Why do people like you think that wealthy people are so horrible? Of course, you don't, you just follow the rest of the herd who say they are horrible.

 

[Arthur]

So you mock my intentions because i'm not 42 years old?

That right there is why we are protesting. Ignorance of the older generations.

No I'm sure he was just pointing out that when you join the real world post university and start paying income tax that your opinions on who should pay for little johnny to go and get slashed up for three years may well change.

Yes that maybe me stereotyping you lot but every single person I know that went to university spent three years on the lash and not one of them went on to work in a career that was anyway related to their degree.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

PAH...if you think you students know how to protest...look back on Google at the student protests in France at the Sorbonne in teh 60's.

Puts our unwashed in the shade

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Hi KneeOn, Dec 5th is the 18th anniversary of Charlton's first game back at The Valley, so I will be there hopefully with a suitably witty related placard (18 being the age most join Uni, Falmer being home to both the new stadium and our city's Unis). Don't get despondent from these cretins criticising you. Believe you me, come March 26th they will all be either (a) side-by-side with you on the big national demo/riot as they realise quite how the wave of cuts affect them, or (b) barricading themselves into their Daily Mail homes fearful that you are coming after them. They have more than three months to either grow a pair or accept they were born as ***** and will die as *****. Either way, who f***ing cares. Finally, youth has found its voice. That even newspaper columnists, union and party leaders are now - fearful of a wave of righteous anger they can't control - in favour of the demos/riots shows you how quickly things move these days. Don't let a bunch of dinosaurs who f***ing hate the lovely non-homophobic pro-active fans of FCUM because they sing a bit make you think all old people think like that. The old ***** on here are by and large grumpy backward right-wing long-left-Brighton-'cause-it's-too-liberal *****. And they are NOT represenative of the wider 'old' (25+ I guess, in your terms) demographic anywhere in the world, let alone Brighton. So protest, shout, agitate, educate, occupy, and rest assured that if and when the coaltion collapses and the government stands down next summer, these same old ***** will pretend it was them (via their grumpy e-mails) rather than you (by your marches, occupations and brave direction action) that made it so. The absolute best of luck, KneeOn, to you and all involved in the student protests. I doff my f***ing (Charlton not Albion) cap to you. At least twice x

Good grief ..... no wonder the students have lost so much public sympathy with idiotic rants like that.

 

[bradley1]

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere.QUOTE]

But who was supposed to regulate the banks properly? Brown. He relaxed regulation which enabled the banks to run without proper reserves in place. When times were good other countries were putting money away while Brown carried on borrowing. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[attila]

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere.QUOTE]

But who was supposed to regulate the banks properly? Brown. He relaxed regulation which enabled the banks to run without proper reserves in place. When times were good other countries were putting money away while Brown carried on borrowing. It was a disaster waiting to happen.

You are absolutely right about that - the irony of a so called 'Labour' (pah!) chancellor allowing this to happen is not lost on me. But that's like blaming the bloke who left the door open and letting the burglar who nicked the stuff get off scot free. The ridiculous thing is the fact that short selling (gambling with our financial future at no personal risk whatsoever to the people involved) was legal in the first place! As I say, the people who caused the crisis are not only getting away with it, they are going to load even more money onto that which they have ripped off already, and the politicians and media are diverting attention away with nonsense like 'we're all in this together' (which we manifestly are NOT!) If all three parties stand for exactly the same thing (two of them have now admitted as much: the third connived in the process as described above) and the mainstream media follow their line, then all 'normal' democratic channels are exhausted and protest/direct action is the only available alternative to those who are being shafted. The student protest is just the beginning.

 

[Bwian]

Hi KneeOn, Dec 5th is the 18th anniversary of Charlton's first game back at The Valley, so I will be there hopefully with a suitably witty related placard (18 being the age most join Uni, Falmer being home to both the new stadium and our city's Unis). Don't get despondent from these cretins criticising you. Believe you me, come March 26th they will all be either (a) side-by-side with you on the big national demo/riot as they realise quite how the wave of cuts affect them, or (b) barricading themselves into their Daily Mail homes fearful that you are coming after them. They have more than three months to either grow a pair or accept they were born as ***** and will die as *****. Either way, who f***ing cares. Finally, youth has found its voice. That even newspaper columnists, union and party leaders are now - fearful of a wave of righteous anger they can't control - in favour of the demos/riots shows you how quickly things move these days. Don't let a bunch of dinosaurs who f***ing hate the lovely non-homophobic pro-active fans of FCUM because they sing a bit make you think all old people think like that. The old ***** on here are by and large grumpy backward right-wing long-left-Brighton-'cause-it's-too-liberal *****. And they are NOT represenative of the wider 'old' (25+ I guess, in your terms) demographic anywhere in the world, let alone Brighton. So protest, shout, agitate, educate, occupy, and rest assured that if and when the coaltion collapses and the government stands down next summer, these same old ***** will pretend it was them (via their grumpy e-mails) rather than you (by your marches, occupations and brave direction action) that made it so. The absolute best of luck, KneeOn, to you and all involved in the student protests. I doff my f***ing (Charlton not Albion) cap to you. At least twice x

Cretins because we don't agree with him/you/the great unwashed? I love the way you work dodging bar stewards are so quick to criticise (usually in English an eight year old would be embarrassed by) and attack the people who are putting the money up front so people like you can avoid work for another three years.

Congratulations on becoming the first generation of 'youth' to ever have found its voice. No wonder you lazy oiks aren't garnering much support when you spout the above load of bollocks-incidentally, I do have a pair contrary to what you think of anybody over 12 whereas you, I suspect, are still waiting for yours to drop. Now, kindly f*** off and get on with doing something constructive.

 

[somerset]

Ignorance of the older generations.

.... really..!!!!.. and we havn't been through hard times,... struggled with finances,... seen political turmoil and unrest,... seen the effects of cuts,.... wind your neck in,..... get out into the real world and see what the situation is in reality,.... the world ( except China perhaps) is well into its overdraft matey boy,.... so we need to control our expenditure,... we all feel the pain but thats the reality,... anyway, coalition education cuts are 3.7% ( excluding capital projects),.... Labour had 3.1 % on the table before being ousted,...... not a huge difference.......

 

[User removed 4]

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere. And, while the rest of us pay for their crisis, they intend to award themselves even more Christmas bonuses for screwing us over! That is the reality that their politician lackeys and press apologists consistently try and cover up, because if they accepted it the entire rotten system would be called into question. They are the people who should be paying for the crisis, not us!
Good on you all, and this (53 year old) will be there on the 5th to support you. Direct action is most certainly needed, just like it was from time to time during our fight to save the Albion - think on that, all those who oppose them - as with us, it's essential that nobody gets hurt, cos that is bloody stupid and counter productive. Best of luck. And you are just the first wave: when millions more people see for themselves just how their lives are being wrecked by greedy, profiteering scum, they will get just as angry as you. And no one will be able to call THEM 'middle class,' 'idealists' 'scroungers' or whatever - they will be ordinary, hard working people, whose lives have been destroyed by the greedy few......

are you sure you're 53 ? you sound like an 18 year old student !!

 

[attila]

I sounded similar in some ways when I was 18 - only difference these days is I understand rather more of what I'm talking about

 

[Gwylan]

I sounded similar in some ways when I was 18

That's absolutely true- the only difference is that there's less swearing these days.

And, like Attila, I see no reason why people from my generation should have to look down their noses at students. Anyone who went to university in the 70s,80s and 90s will have benefited from an education where they didn't have to pay fees. So, this I'm-a-right-Jack brigade were happy to live off tax-payers' largesse then but when it's someone else benefiting, it's not right.

If you're one of the people that didn't go to college and think that students are a waste of space then, fair enough, that's your opinion (although you do of course benefit from the work of the university-educated doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc). But those in government who have been to university and now relish taking the knife to further education are hypocrites of the first order.

 

[Tooting Gull]

You are absolutely right about that - the irony of a so called 'Labour' (pah!) chancellor allowing this to happen is not lost on me. But that's like blaming the bloke who left the door open and letting the burglar who nicked the stuff get off scot free. The ridiculous thing is the fact that short selling (gambling with our financial future at no personal risk whatsoever to the people involved) was legal in the first place! As I say, the people who caused the crisis are not only getting away with it, they are going to load even more money onto that which they have ripped off already, and the politicians and media are diverting attention away with nonsense like 'we're all in this together' (which we manifestly are NOT!) If all three parties stand for exactly the same thing (two of them have now admitted as much: the third connived in the process as described above) and the mainstream media follow their line, then all 'normal' democratic channels are exhausted and protest/direct action is the only available alternative to those who are being shafted. The student protest is just the beginning.

Pretty much agree with all of that. Unfortunately the media cannot be expected to provide balanced coverage, since it is largely run by people of great wealth and influence. The status quo on things like the way we tax and the bank baleouts are in their favour, and they will not be most harmed by cuts to education, since if you're generalising they could more easily afford to subsidise their kids. You won't have that relayed to you, so you have to work it out for yourselves.

If even Labour and papers like the Guardian aren't offering any radical alternatives the only answer some will see is direct action. The politicians and the media are way off the pace on the sense of unfairness out there and that is not only a party political point, I'd include Labour though they are not the worst offenders. That ranges from struggling to keep their own business afloat while seeing banks make a total hash of it and getting baled out by public funds, to decisions that will clearly stop ordinary people enjoying a university degree that might be the making of them, to changes in the tax and benefits system that disproportionately hit the least well off.

 

[Stoo82]

But it's not Brown and co who caused the crisis, is it? It's greedy shortselling BANKERS and the banks they worked for, in the UK, US and elsewhere. And, while the rest of us pay for their crisis, they intend to award themselves even more Christmas bonuses for screwing us over! That is the reality that their politician lackeys and press apologists consistently try and cover up, because if they accepted it the entire rotten system would be called into question. They are the people who should be paying for the crisis, not us!
Good on you all, and this (53 year old) will be there on the 5th to support you. Direct action is most certainly needed, just like it was from time to time during our fight to save the Albion - think on that, all those who oppose them - as with us, it's essential that nobody gets hurt, cos that is bloody stupid and counter productive. Best of luck. And you are just the first wave: when millions more people see for themselves just how their lives are being wrecked by greedy, profiteering scum, they will get just as angry as you. And no one will be able to call THEM 'middle class,' 'idealists' 'scroungers' or whatever - they will be ordinary, hard working people, whose lives have been destroyed by the greedy few......

Bankers did not put the country 4 trillion in debt. Labours endless spending did. 'Sorry, there's no money left' was the note left.

 

[The Antikythera Mechanism]

(although you do of course benefit from the work of the university-educated doctors, nurses, dentists, engineers etc).

All very worthwhile degrees, and the sort of degrees where absolute dedication and application is required to make the grade. I feel that degree courses should be assessed on the potential benefit occassioned to the country by producing graduates in particular fields and funded accordingly.