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F1 - Spa Grand Prix
- Thread starter Turkey
- Start date
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
The problem, if you want to call it that, is that circuits were all considerably modernised following the death of Ayrton Senna...they all have to have extra safety measures to try and reduce the chance of a driver smashing into a wall or launching his car into the crowd, granted that this hasn't removed a certain amount of driver error or mechanical failure but it has made F1 far safer. Hence, you have a situation like on Sunday where a driver uses a run off area to avoid an almost certain collision but is later penalised for doing so...barking mad!
tedebear
Legal Alien
Please no - for the rest of us who use these tracks for the remainder of the year, we need those, ever seen a mini side by side with a mk7 jag going through a chicane - if any thing goes wrong we use those...albeit having to kill ouir tyres going over the vicious kerbs they use these days....
I was bitterly dissapointed with the decision of the enquiry, but if you take the letter of the law, Hamilton gained advantage, not intentionally, but unfortunately WHERE he re-entered the track gave him advantage into the next corner. Sad but true. The rule must be changed so that the driver who took the escape route should ensure he/she moves his vehicle completely behind the car in which he just overtook. The FIA rules are always ambiguous and open to interpretation.
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Agree totally with you there tede, but what you advocate is pretty much exactly what Lewis did, he even overtook by going round to the other side of his opponent...only possible by going completely behind him. I suppose it is possible to argue that he gained advantage by getting closer to the other car...the only way he could have got out of that would have been by dropping back some distance...however, I reckon the FIA would still have punished him.
drew
Drew
It seems quite clear which of you lot are Ferrari fans from reading the posts. It is accepted that Hamilton gained an advantage by cutting the chicane but according to McLaren today they twice had assurances from the Race Controller that they had yielded the lead and were ok.
This stinks of politics and is a further nail in the coffin for formula one racing as it is quite clear that you are not allowed to race. You can win from pitstop tactics or just because you have more money and go past lesser mortals on the straights. If the boot had been on the other foot you can bet your house on the fact that Raikonen would not have had the same penalty if any at all.
As for Ferrari bias, you only have to look at Max Mosley's wikipedia entry to see that he wants Ferrari boss to take his job.
This stinks of politics and is a further nail in the coffin for formula one racing as it is quite clear that you are not allowed to race. You can win from pitstop tactics or just because you have more money and go past lesser mortals on the straights. If the boot had been on the other foot you can bet your house on the fact that Raikonen would not have had the same penalty if any at all.
As for Ferrari bias, you only have to look at Max Mosley's wikipedia entry to see that he wants Ferrari boss to take his job.
This is from the Mclaren website:-
9th September 2008
Martin Whitmarsh said: "Following our decision to register our intention to appeal the penalty handed out to Lewis Hamilton by the FIA Stewards at the 2008 Belgian Grand Prix, we hereby confirm that we have now lodged notice of appeal. Lewis describes the incident as follows."
Lewis Hamilton said: "In the closing stages of the race I was catching Kimi consistently, lap by lap, and with three laps remaining I got close enough to attempt to overtake him on the entry to the last chicane. I managed to get slightly ahead of him in the braking area for the first apex of the chicane. He fought back approaching the second apex - but, in doing so, he left no room for me on the inside line. The only way for me to avoid a collision was therefore to cut inside the second apex.
"I came out of the second apex in front of Kimi and so I momentarily lifted-off on the straight, to ensure that Kimi got back in front. The team also came on the radio and instructed me to allow Kimi to repass, which I had already done. As a result, Kimi crossed the start/finish line ahead of me and 6.7km/h quicker than me.
"After allowing Kimi to completely repass, I crossed from the left side of the track to the right side of the track, passing behind Kimi in the process. I then attacked Kimi on the inside of the first corner, and successfully outbraked him."
Martin Whitmarsh added: "From the pit wall, we then asked Race Control to confirm that they were comfortable that Lewis had allowed Kimi to repass, and they confirmed twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was 'okay'.
"If Race Control had instead expressed any concern regarding Lewis’s actions at that time, we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
If the two cars had collided at that position it is fairly unlikely that anyone would have been injured, however, the potential for serious injury or death was far greater in the pit-lane incident the other week...did the punishment fit the crime then, Ferrari were incompetent and got away with it.
I am not a Ferrari fan, but not anti them either, it just seems that the playing field isn't level at the moment and they are on top of the slope.
I am not a Ferrari fan, but not anti them either, it just seems that the playing field isn't level at the moment and they are on top of the slope.
And of course Bruno Senna got a drive-through this weekend at Spa in the GP2 race for the exact same thing Massa did in the pit at Valencia
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Probably because his surname is Senna...my guess is that if he had been called something like Bruno Ferrari, for instance, he might have got off scot free.
JJ McClure
Go Jags
If the two cars had collided you can bet your life that Hamilton would have got a penalty for the too, just like Kovalainan earlier in the race (remind me again who he drives for).
tedebear
Legal Alien
Fair point about coming around behind him, but the FIA must have think the rules say that the incident must be redressed immediately and not through further manouvers, otherwise they would have not punished him.
Wrong decision in my book anyhow as Kimi crashed! So the incident is irrelevant..
disagree, without that incident he may not of crashed and held onto the lead.
Personally I think the only problem lies that he overtook at the next corner having been so close to Kimis behind after letting him pass, if he had lifted more and taken him 2 corners later then the matter would be irrelevant....so theres the loophole in the law, when can you re-overtake? Innocent in my book as theres no law that says you have to wait longer to overtake!
my Grandma came out with the best thing I've heard on this matter and I quote:
"they dont want him to win the championship because he's Black!" bless her
my Grandma came out with the best thing I've heard on this matter and I quote:
"they dont want him to win the championship because he's Black!" bless her
Why do you think that's funny Marc? She may have a point!
tedebear
Legal Alien
disagree, without that incident he may not of crashed and held onto the lead.
Personally I think the only problem lies that he overtook at the next corner having been so close to Kimis behind after letting him pass, if he had lifted more and taken him 2 corners later then the matter would be irrelevant....so theres the loophole in the law, when can you re-overtake? Innocent in my book as theres no law that says you have to wait longer to overtake!
my Grandma came out with the best thing I've heard on this matter and I quote:
"they dont want him to win the championship because he's Black!" bless her
Kimi was obviously struggling with the conditions though, I believe the spin was completely unrelated to the incident.
Icy Gull
Back on the rollercoaster
- Jul 5, 2003
- 72,015
In dry conditions I doubt Hamilton would have been able to retake Kimi quite so easily, but the Ferrari handles like a sack of shit in the wet on dry tyres. Having checked with race control twice and being told Hamilton had followed the correct procedure in letting Kimi retake him, the decision from a bunch of amateurs who've never driven a Formula One car is extremely suspect.
Ex drivers like Nikki Lauda do not come out with statements like the following unless they are seriously pissed off with the bias shown to Ferrari -
Triple world champion Niki Lauda has already described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history".
"It is the most perverted judgement I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren.
"It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."
Ex drivers like Nikki Lauda do not come out with statements like the following unless they are seriously pissed off with the bias shown to Ferrari -
Triple world champion Niki Lauda has already described the stewards' decision as "the worst judgement in F1 history".
"It is the most perverted judgement I have ever seen," said the Austrian, who won the title for both Ferrari and McLaren.
"It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."
JJ McClure
Go Jags
Yep, very good read that, but let's face it when has common sense ever won over politics.
The thing that annos me is that the result will be decided in court. I recon that the winner of the world championship will win by less than 4 points (the cost to Hamilton - although it was arguably 6 - with Massa gaining 2, Hamilton losing 4).
Regardless - this years World Champtonship will be decided in an FIA court.
Last years comtructor's champoinship was decided in court.
2006's constructors and world championships were also decided in court when Renault's mass-dampers were banned.
Three years, four championships, all decided in an FIA court in Paris. This, my friends, is what is worng with sport when it forgets about the fans and choses to focus on the money.
Regardless - this years World Champtonship will be decided in an FIA court.
Last years comtructor's champoinship was decided in court.
2006's constructors and world championships were also decided in court when Renault's mass-dampers were banned.
Three years, four championships, all decided in an FIA court in Paris. This, my friends, is what is worng with sport when it forgets about the fans and choses to focus on the money.
just antoher reason not to watch F1, get your arses to Brands Hatch and watch some much better racing at a fraction of the cost!