F1 - Spa Grand Prix

[itszamora]

Bet the Spanish love this.

They see Hamilton as a "cheat".

And the British feel the same about Alonso.

I don't think Alonso's particularly a cheat, he's just a wanker.

 

[Turkey]

Yet if he had kept his line and touched raikkonen he would be out of the race! He did what was necessary imo and with this element of doubt I cannot see how a punishment can be applied.

Na Kimi had the inside and the corner. Lewis only got alongside by breaking late and locking up. You can see this in the close up camera view that was alongside the cars. It was Kimi's corner and Lewis could have and should have backed out of it and tried again later.

 

[Everest]

Erm, isn't that exactly what they HAVE just done with Lewis?

No. Because the incident was within the last 5 laps, then it HAS to be dealt with after the race.

Yeah but the rule is "gained an advantage" and despite "giving the place back" he still gained an advantage.

Article 30.3
a) During practice and the race, drivers may use only the track and must at all times observe the provisions of the Code relating to driving behaviour on circuits.

Hasn't everyone broken that rule at some stage?

 

[Uncle C]

Na Kimi had the inside and the corner. Lewis only got alongside by breaking late and locking up. You can see this in the close up camera view that was alongside the cars. It was Kimi's corner and Lewis could have and should have backed out of it and tried again later.

Drivers can leave the main track as long as no advantage is gained.

When they entered the corner Lewis was behind.....................................When they crossed the starting line after the corner Lewis was still behind and computer data showed he was travelling slower than Kimi.

No advantage gained.

 

[strings]

I watched the race yesterday and upon getting into work this morning turned on NSC and this was the first I have seen of the penalty.

I am now well and truely f***ed off (even more than usually on a Monday morning). Anyways, as I remembers it, Raikonen squeezed Hamilton off the track, forcing him to leave the circuit. As a result of this, Hamilton cut the chicane, which in turn resulted in him geting an advantage, which he subsequently relinquished.

Now, having gone to BBC sport, I note that Hamilton was behind Raikkonen when they crossed the start finish line and was travelling slower. Surely the fact that he was able to overtake the ferrari was because of Raikonen's ineptness (why did he need to 'weave' - something which is also against the rules of F1?).

Seems to me that the FIA are continuing their 10-year long hobby of favouring ferrari. I hope this is overturned. If Ron Dennis is indeed telling the truth - that they checked with the race director to ensure that they gave the advantage back - I cannot see how Hamilton can be punished.

[/rant]

 

[Easy 10]

The FIA's stance seems to be that although Hamilton yielded the lead back to Raikonnen after cutting the chicane, he was still closer to Raikonnen than he would have been at that point had he stayed behind Raikonnen through that chicane.

I think MAYBE Hamilton could have made it more obvious that he'd yielded, and perhaps saved his overtaking manouevre for some time after the very next corner following the incident. As it played out, he dropped back slightly behind Raikonnen, but was still almost alongside him and in prime position to burst past straight away.

Its still a ridiculously harsh punishment, mind. But I don't think Hamilton is entirely blameless.

 

[strings]

Having had 20 minutes of quiet reflection (a trip to the photocopier), Eady is probably right.

I still hope the penalty get reduced, it does seem that these decisions are only made when they affect the world championship - you never see the FIA stewards discussing the dodgy overtaking manouvre (sp?), which won somebody 11th place.

 

[franks brother]

I have just looked at the F1 and FIA web pages and am not surprised to find that it's almost impossible to email a comment to them. How convenient! The whole sport is a shambles. To be honest all I ever watch is the start now and soon as Lewis was in Second I turned off and went out. Only to find out later he'd won then not!
As others have said Ferrari throw their dummy out the pram and the FIA jump to it.
I still maintain that McLaren were told to throw the Championship for Lewis last year after their fine. No team in their right mind would leave Lewis out on tyres so low they get a puncture and a "mysterious" 60 second engine problem, which just so happenes to put him way back in the field with no chance of winning.
The only overtaking in this sport now is how each team can out-do each other in the politics!
What does Lewis have to do to win the championship?
Simple easy answer, join Ferrari! It'll be a sad day if that happens.
For what it's worth Ron, you have my full support and I hope you win your appeal.

 

[seven stands]

Schumacher v Pedro De La Rosa Hungary 2006 - No penalty for Ferrari 'gaining' a position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

2008 Spa - Kimi Raikönnen Vs Lewis Hamilton - penalty for Maclaren for 'gaining' a postionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

 

[vegster]

I know this is going "off track " excuse the pun, but I remember a certain Ferrari driver taking out rival drivers with impunity.. especially poor old Damon that time. The sport really seems to be biased in as such that Ferrari seem fireproof ... no mater what they do.

 

[Turkey]

I know this is going "off track " excuse the pun, but I remember a certain Ferrari driver taking out rival drivers with impunity.. especially poor old Damon that time. The sport really seems to be biased in as such that Ferrari seem fireproof ... no mater what they do.

Against Damon Schumacher was in a Benetton. Against Villeneuve he was stripped of all his Championship points. It does seem like there is a bias though. Generally Ferrari have got away with things. Remember Schumacher winning in the pits at Silverstone and thats what instigated this change to a 25 second penalty.

 

[Zesh Rehman]

Schumacher v Pedro De La Rosa Hungary 2006 - No penalty for Ferrari 'gaining' a position
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5UnPeyzcHM

2008 Spa - Kimi Raikönnen Vs Lewis Hamilton - penalty for Maclaren for 'gaining' a postionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

well and what about Massa's dangerous pit exit in Valencia, if Hamilton deserves a 25 second penalty then so does Massa!

 

[JJ McClure]

Just watched it again and whether he gave the place back to Kimi or gained an advantage seems irrelevant when he actually had no choice but to cut the corner. It was a case of take to the grass or have a crash.

Anywho plenty of bods on the ITV forum seem pretty annoyed too and have even started a petition (fat lot of good it'll do)
http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html

 

[Easy 10]

The advantage was that Hamilton WAS far closer to Raikkonen as a result of the way he slipped the chicane, and although he briefly yielded the lead, instead of tucking in behind him, he was still practically alongside Raikkonen and in prime position to burst past again before the corner. I dunno why he was in such a tearing hurrry to get past him on that straight - he clearly had the beating of Raikkonen by then, and still had a couple of laps (with plenty of overtaking opportunities) to get past him. Doing it immediately after he'd skipped the chicane was asking for trouble, and once again, Hamilton has shot himself in the foot.
Great driver, but he has an impetuous streak that keeps on costing him.

 

[Pavilionaire]

When I watched it live I shouted out "You can't do that!" and watching it again I don't see concrete evidence of Hamilton yielding to Raikkonen. The penalty is very harsh but fair. What makes it worse is that Massa never had a shout of winning the whole day but ended up with the full 10 points.

I just hope that Masa doesn't win the Driver's Championship by 3 points or less; if he does this incident will have give him the title, which can only be bad for the sport.

F1 has got to sort out the enquiry review timing. You can't have 90,000 people leaving the track having just watched Hamilton getting doused in Champagne and lifting the trophy before heading back to the car park, switching on the radio and finding out Massa's got the points. Farcical.

 

[Uncle C]

The advantage was that Hamilton WAS far closer to Raikkonen as a result of the way he slipped the chicane QUOTE]

Sorry but I dont understand this.

Entering the corner, Lewis was at least half a cars length alonside Kimi. After reliquishing the lead he was behind him.

How do you think this makes him closer?

 

[Uncle C]

When I watched it live I shouted out "You can't do that!" and watching it again I don't see concrete evidence of Hamilton yielding to Raikkonen.

So pulling back behind Kimi and slowing to a slower speed is not concrete proof then?

 

[Easy 10]

The advantage was that Hamilton WAS far closer to Raikkonen as a result of the way he slipped the chicane QUOTE]

Sorry but I dont understand this.

Entering the corner, Lewis was at least half a cars length alonside Kimi. After reliquishing the lead he was behind him.

How do you think this makes him closer?

Lewis dived straight through the chicane sliplane to avoid collision as he tried to overtake Raikkonen. Therefore he exited the chicane almost alongside Raikkonen instead of behind him (as he would have been had he gone through the chicane properly). THATS where he was closer to make his overtaking manouevre, and where his advantage came from.

He then took his foot off the gas to drop back slightly to "yield" the lead back to Raikkonen, but was striaght back on again to overtake him before the corner. The penalty was harsh, but Hamilton was asking for trouble doing it that way.

He had 2 laps left and could have taken Raikkonen any time he liked. He simply didn't NEED to do it before that corner immediately after the chicane.

 

[Uncle C]

Lewis dived straight through the chicane sliplane to avoid collision as he tried to overtake Raikkonen. Therefore he exited the chicane almost alongside Raikkonen instead of behind him (as he would have been had he gone through the chicane properly). THATS where he was closer to make his overtaking manouevre, and where his advantage came from.

He then took his foot off the gas to drop back slightly to "yield" the lead back to Raikkonen, but was striaght back on again to overtake him before the corner. The penalty was harsh, but Hamilton was asking for trouble doing it that way.

He had 2 laps left and could have taken Raikkonen any time he liked. He simply didn't NEED to do it before that corner immediately after the chicane.

These people are supposed to be racing each other and self preservation also enters the equation. The result of a near accident was that Lewis gained a few feet of track which he immediately relinquished. How can you be behind a car, travelling slower and still be deemed to have an advantage.

I have seen this type of 'overtaking' incident happen many times in F1 and providing the place is given back there is never a punishment.

The fact Lewis overtook Kimi straight afterwards is almost an irrelavance - next they will blame him for Kimi spinning off.

 

[itszamora]

Lewis dived straight through the chicane sliplane to avoid collision as he tried to overtake Raikkonen. Therefore he exited the chicane almost alongside Raikkonen instead of behind him (as he would have been had he gone through the chicane properly). THATS where he was closer to make his overtaking manouevre, and where his advantage came from.

He then took his foot off the gas to drop back slightly to "yield" the lead back to Raikkonen, but was striaght back on again to overtake him before the corner. The penalty was harsh, but Hamilton was asking for trouble doing it that way.

He had 2 laps left and could have taken Raikkonen any time he liked. He simply didn't NEED to do it before that corner immediately after the chicane.

I sort of agree with you - and that's obviously the view the stewards have taken. But there needs to be some clarification of the rule - can you overtake at the next corner etc etc? And I think McLaren should bring up the De La Rosa-Schumacher incident from a couple of years ago in their appeal.