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Double standards over Koran Burning.
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Brilliant.
Dandyman
In London village.
This tide of anti-Muslim hatred is a threat to us all | Seumas Milne | Comment is free | The Guardian
This tide of anti-Muslim hatred is a threat to us all
Seumas Milne
The Guardian, Thursday 25 February 2010
If young British Muslims had any doubts that they are singled out for special treatment in the land of their birth, the punishments being meted out to those who took part in last year's London demonstrations against Israel's war on Gaza will have dispelled them. The protests near the Israeli embassy at the height of the onslaught were angry: bottles and stones were thrown, a Starbucks was trashed and the police employed unusually violent tactics, even by the standards of other recent confrontations, such as the G20 protests.
But a year later, it turns out that it's the sentences that are truly exceptional. Of 119 people arrested, 78 have been charged, all but two of them young Muslims (most between the ages of 16 and 19), according to Manchester University's Joanna Gilmore, even though such figures in no way reflect the mix of those who took part. In the past few weeks, 15 have been convicted, mostly of violent disorder, and jailed for between eight months and two-and-a-half years – having switched to guilty pleas to avoid heavier terms. Another nine are up to be sentenced tomorrow.
The severity of the charges and sentencing goes far beyond the official response to any other recent anti-war demonstration, or even the violent stop the City protests a decade ago. So do the arrests, many of them carried out months after the event in dawn raids by dozens of police officers, who smashed down doors and handcuffed family members as if they were suspected terrorists. Naturally, none of the more than 30 complaints about police violence were upheld, even where video *evidence was available.
Nothing quite like this has happened, in fact, since 2001, when young Asian Muslims rioted against extreme rightwing racist groups in Bradford and other northern English towns and were subjected to heavily disproportionate prison terms. In the Gaza protest cases, the judge has explicitly relied on the Bradford precedent and repeatedly stated that the sentences he is handing down are intended as a deterrent.
For many in the Muslim community, the point will be clear: not only that these are political sentences, but that different rules apply to Muslims, who take part in democratic protest at their peril. It's a dangerous message, especially given the threat from a tiny minority that is drawn towards indiscriminate violence in response to Britain's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and rejects any truck with mainstream politics.
But it's one that is constantly reinforced by politicians and parts of the media, who have increasingly blurred the distinction between violent and non- violent groups, demonised Islamism as an alien threat and branded as extremist any Muslim leader who dares to campaign against western foreign policy in the Muslim world. That's reflected in the government's targeting of "nonviolent extremism" and lavish funding of anti-Islamist groups, as well as in Tory plans to ban the nonviolent Hizb ut-Tahrir and crack down ever harder on "extremist written material and speech".
In the media, it takes the form of relentless attempts to expose Muslims involved in wider politics as secret fanatics and sympathisers with *terrorism. Next week, Channel 4 Dispatches plans to broadcast the latest in a series of undercover documentaries aimed at revealing the ugly underside of British Muslim political life. In this case, the target is the predominantly British-Bangladeshi Islamic Forum of Europe. From material sent out in advance, the aim appears to be to show the IFE is an "entryist" group in legitimate east London politics – and unashamedly Islamist to boot.
As recent research co-authored by the former head of the Metropolitan police special branch's Muslim contact unit, Bob Lambert, has shown, such ubiquitous portrayals of Muslim activists as "terrorists, sympathisers and subversives" (all the while underpinned by a drumbeat campaign against the nonexistent Afghan "burka") are one factor in the alarming growth of British Islamophobia and the rising tide of anti-Muslim violence and hate crimes that stem from it.
Last month's British Social Attitudes survey found that most people now regard Britain as "deeply divided along religious lines", with hostility to Muslims and Islam far outstripping such attitudes to any other religious group. On the ground that has translated into murders, assaults and attacks on mosques and Muslim institutions – with shamefully little response in politics or the media. Last year, five mosques in Britain were firebombed, from Bishop's Stortford to Cradley Heath, though barely reported in the national press, let alone visited by a government minister to show solidarity.
And now there is a street movement, the English Defence League, directly adopting the officially sanctioned targets of "Islamists" and "extremists" – as well as the "Taliban" and the threat of a "takeover of Islam" – to intimidate and threaten Muslim communities across the country, following the success of the British National party in baiting Muslims above all other ethnic and religious communities.
Of course, anti-Muslim bigotry, the last socially acceptable racism, is often explained away by the London bombings of 2005 and the continuing threat of terror attacks, even though by far the greatest number of what the authorities call "terrorist incidents" in the UK take place in Northern Ireland, while Europol figures show that more than 99% of terrorist attacks in Europe over the past three years were carried out by non-Muslims. And in the last nine months, two of the most serious bomb plot convictions were of far right racists, Neil Lewington and Terence Gavan, who were planning to kill Muslims.
Meanwhile, in the runup to the general election, expect some ugly dog whistles from Westminster politicians keen to capitalise on Islamophobic sentiment. With few winnable Muslim votes, the Tories seem especially up for it. Earlier this month, Conservative frontbencher Michael Gove came out against the building of a mosque in his Surrey constituency, while Welsh Tory MP David Davies blamed a rape case on the "medieval and barbaric" attitudes of some migrant communities.
As long as British governments back wars and occupations in the Middle East and Muslim world, there will continue to be a risk of violence in Britain. But attempts to drive British Muslims out of normal political activity, and the refusal to confront anti-Muslim hatred, can only ratchet up the danger and threaten us all.
cannedheat
Banned
If I download a copy ot the Koran, is it OK to burn it.
philsussex
New member
What is the acceptable method of disposing of a Koran?
I usually put paper rubbish in my green wheelie bin.
I usually put paper rubbish in my green wheelie bin.
User removed 4
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- #85
yes you probably could, but you wont because you havent got the bollocks to , because you know i know who you are noel, and in a few days i'm going to be living round the corner from you
Huple
Unregistered
Noel Noel, Noel Noel, that is the name of that bastard Cantwell.
User removed 4
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- #87
What exactly am i meant to draw from that article ? its pretty much total conjecture, without any evidence or fact to back up the authors slanted and biased view.
yes you probably could, but you wont because you havent got the bollocks to , because you know i know who you are noel, and in a few days i'm going to be living round the corner from you
Yes Bushy, you've done this 'I know who you are line' before. Besides, I've outed myself on here a number of times. The most recent was the 'Trying to contact Noele H' thread. And a lot of people know who I am anyway. I've also mentioned on here I live on Osborne Villas a lot of times as well. It's really no secret, or a big deal for me.
But I have asked you before, please please be courteous and spell my name correctly. It has an e at the end.
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No, No, No. It's Noele!
Wrong, it's because it would be too cheap.
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SULLY COULDNT SHOOT
Loyal2Family+Albion!
REALLY!?!
Right then, where's my matches. I'll start with the Bible and you can do the Koran and we can swap half way through if you like. Then we'll both get arrested.
Dandyman
In London village.
How exactly is the firebombing of mosques or the convictions of terrorists Neil Lewington and Terence Gavan "conjecture" ?
portslade seagull
Well-known member
Sadly agree with you... just look at some of the replys as for why .... double standards do exist in these cases.
portslade seagull
Well-known member
they got pretty lightly then if it was left to the Israelis ......
User removed 4
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- Thread starter
- #95
If young British Muslims had any doubts that they are singled out for special treatment in the land of their birth, the punishments being meted out to those who took part in last year's London demonstrations against Israel's war on Gaza will have dispelled them. The protests near the Israeli embassy at the height of the onslaught were angry: bottles and stones were thrown, a Starbucks was trashed and the police employed unusually violent tactics, even by the standards of other recent confrontations, such as the G20 protests.
But a year later, it turns out that it's the sentences that are truly exceptional. Of 119 people arrested, 78 have been charged, all but two of them young Muslims (most between the ages of 16 and 19), according to Manchester University's Joanna Gilmore, even though such figures in no way reflect the mix of those who took part. In the past few weeks, 15 have been convicted, mostly of violent disorder, and jailed for between eight months and two-and-a-half years – having switched to guilty pleas to avoid heavier terms. Another nine are up to be sentenced tomorrow.
The severity of the charges and sentencing goes far beyond the official response to any other recent anti-war demonstration, or even the violent stop the City protests a decade ago. So do the arrests, many of them carried out months after the event in dawn raids by dozens of police officers, who smashed down doors and handcuffed family members as if they were suspected terrorists. Naturally, none of the more than 30 complaints about police violence were upheld, even where video *evidence was available.
Nothing quite like this has happened, in fact, since 2001, when young Asian Muslims rioted against extreme rightwing racist groups in Bradford and other northern English towns and were subjected to heavily disproportionate prison terms. In the Gaza protest cases, the judge has explicitly relied on the Bradford precedent and repeatedly stated that the sentences he is handing down are intended as a deterrent.
For many in the Muslim community, the point will be clear: not only that these are political sentences, but that different rules apply to Muslims, who take part in democratic protest at their peril. It's a dangerous message, especially given the threat from a tiny minority that is drawn towards indiscriminate violence in response to Britain's wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and rejects any truck with mainstream politics.
But it's one that is constantly reinforced by politicians and parts of the media, who have increasingly blurred the distinction between violent and non- violent groups, demonised Islamism as an alien threat and branded as extremist any Muslim leader who dares to campaign against western foreign policy in the Muslim world. That's reflected in the government's targeting of "nonviolent extremism" and lavish funding of anti-Islamist groups, as well as in Tory plans to ban the nonviolent Hizb ut-Tahrir and crack down ever harder on "extremist written material and speech".
In the media, it takes the form of relentless attempts to expose Muslims involved in wider politics as secret fanatics and sympathisers with *terrorism. Next week, Channel 4 Dispatches plans to broadcast the latest in a series of undercover documentaries aimed at revealing the ugly underside of British Muslim political life. In this case, the target is the predominantly British-Bangladeshi Islamic Forum of Europe. From material sent out in advance, the aim appears to be to show the IFE is an "entryist" group in legitimate east London politics – and unashamedly Islamist to boot.
As recent research co-authored by the former head of the Metropolitan police special branch's Muslim contact unit, Bob Lambert, has shown, such ubiquitous portrayals of Muslim activists as "terrorists, sympathisers and subversives" (all the while underpinned by a drumbeat campaign against the nonexistent Afghan "burka") are one factor in the alarming growth of British Islamophobia and the rising tide of anti-Muslim violence and hate crimes that stem from it.
Last month's British Social Attitudes survey found that most people now regard Britain as "deeply divided along religious lines", with hostility to Muslims and Islam far outstripping such attitudes to any other religious group. On the ground that has translated into murders, assaults and attacks on mosques and Muslim institutions – with shamefully little response in politics or the media. Last year, five mosques in Britain were firebombed, from Bishop's Stortford to Cradley Heath, though barely reported in the national press, let alone visited by a government minister to show solidarity.
And now there is a street movement, the English Defence League, directly adopting the officially sanctioned targets of "Islamists" and "extremists" – as well as the "Taliban" and the threat of a "takeover of Islam" – to intimidate and threaten Muslim communities across the country, following the success of the British National party in baiting Muslims above all other ethnic and religious communities.
Of course, anti-Muslim bigotry, the last socially acceptable racism, is often explained away by the London bombings of 2005 and the continuing threat of terror attacks, even though by far the greatest number of what the authorities call "terrorist incidents" in the UK take place in Northern Ireland, while Europol figures show that more than 99% of terrorist attacks in Europe over the past three years were carried out by non-Muslims. And in the last nine months, two of the most serious bomb plot convictions were of far right racists, Neil Lewington and Terence Gavan, who were planning to kill Muslims.
Meanwhile, in the runup to the general election, expect some ugly dog whistles from Westminster politicians keen to capitalise on Islamophobic sentiment. With few winnable Muslim votes, the Tories seem especially up for it. Earlier this month, Conservative frontbencher Michael Gove came out against the building of a mosque in his Surrey constituency, while Welsh Tory MP David Davies blamed a rape case on the "medieval and barbaric" attitudes of some migrant communities.
As long as British governments back wars and occupations in the Middle East and Muslim world, there will continue to be a risk of violence in Britain. But attempts to drive British Muslims out of normal political activity, and the refusal to confront anti-Muslim hatred, can only ratchet up the danger and threaten us all.
I've highlighted what is pure conjecture, as for barbaric attitudes in some immigrant communities ? Quite simply there are,female circumcision anyone ? Honour killings ?
Not much of an article if you take away the highlighting is it ?
daveinprague
New member
Originally Posted by the hitman
They (Muslims) could burn the bible and get away with it.
Sadly agree with you... just look at some of the replys as for why .... double standards do exist in these cases.
Hypothetical conjecture, followed by affirmation of hypothetical conjecture??
Is there a point to that?
I would imagine that people would be libel to charges the same as if somebody burns the koran ie incitement to religious hatred, but seems like you have decided thats not how it is based on comments on NSC? Are you professional nitwits, or just talented amateurs?
What evidence of muslims burning bibles publically in the UK do you have, and what evidence do you have of them not being charged, or is this part of some little fantasy you have going on?
They (Muslims) could burn the bible and get away with it.
Sadly agree with you... just look at some of the replys as for why .... double standards do exist in these cases.
Hypothetical conjecture, followed by affirmation of hypothetical conjecture??
Is there a point to that?
I would imagine that people would be libel to charges the same as if somebody burns the koran ie incitement to religious hatred, but seems like you have decided thats not how it is based on comments on NSC? Are you professional nitwits, or just talented amateurs?
What evidence of muslims burning bibles publically in the UK do you have, and what evidence do you have of them not being charged, or is this part of some little fantasy you have going on?
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bhaexpress
New member
The problem is that if anybody was to burn The Bible who'd care ?
daveinprague
New member
To be fair...the majority wouldnt give a feck, including the psuedo Christians, who dont attend church, and who only follow Christianity in West Street or similer venues on Christmas Eve ie the majority of British 'Christians', unless the church attendances over there have lept from 10-20 to a church full on sundays since i was last in UK, which was only last year.
Just think its funny that people now base their politics on hypothetical situations here on NSC.
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portslade seagull
Well-known member
Is the correct answer
Dandyman
In London village.
Even your highly selective editing leaves firebombing and terrorism. If you read up on the sentences handed down on the protestors you'll also see that the Judge admited they were deliberately harsh and designed to imitimidate.
Female "circumcision" and so called honour killings are revolting and have nothing to do with Islam or do you think that the Shankhill Butchers were representative of the Protestant Reformation ?