Do you regard God Save The Queen as the England national anthem.

[Fef]

Really? Jerusalem was written by William Blake, "those feet" he mentioned were nowhere near the Middle East.
The poem by William Blake was about England, the clue and reference to Jerusalem is pretty clear in the words.
"And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

So, who's feet were they then? Possibly line 3 gives us a clue ... the Holy Lamb of God?

 

[Soulman]

So, who's feet were they then? Possibly line 3 gives us a clue ... the Holy Lamb of God?

Differences of opinion. Some think it was the feet of Jesus after Joseph supposedly travelled all the way over to England on a visit. Some feel that Blake who was an English poet from the 1757-1827 was actually talking about Arthur. Seeing as he was not particularly religious, you can make your own mind up. The Satanic Mills is also an interpretation that has a few different views as well.
This view has been linked to the fate of the Albion Flour Mills, which was the first major factory in London, built in 1769 by Matthew Boulton and James Watt. It was powered by Watt's steam engines, and produced 6,000 bushels of flour a week. The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed, perhaps deliberately, by fire in 1791. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills." [5] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic.

 

[Paskman]

Differences of opinion. Some think it was the feet of Jesus after Joseph supposedly travelled all the way over to England on a visit. Some feel that Blake who was an English poet from the 1757-1827 was actually talking about Arthur. Seeing as he was not particularly religious, you can make your own mind up. The Satanic Mills is also an interpretation that has a few different views as well.
This view has been linked to the fate of the Albion Flour Mills, which was the first major factory in London, built in 1769 by Matthew Boulton and James Watt. It was powered by Watt's steam engines, and produced 6,000 bushels of flour a week. The factory could have driven independent traditional millers out of business, but it was destroyed, perhaps deliberately, by fire in 1791. London's independent millers celebrated with placards reading, "Success to the mills of ALBION but no Albion Mills." [5] Opponents referred to the factory as satanic.

Must admit to never hearing Arthur described at the "Holy Lamb of God"! I also always subscribed to the
"Dark Satanic Mills" as pagan temples, it is a religious poem extolling how Jesus came to England when working for Joseph of Arimathea - which is an ancient legend. However like, everything today, people like to put their own interpretations on it. By the way Blake wrote it it Sussex; it was inspired by the walks he took in the glorious Sussex countryside. Parry, who wrote the music, also lived in Sussex. So if we didn't have GOSBTS we could use it!

 

[cunning fergus]

Must admit to never hearing Arthur described at the "Holy Lamb of God"! I also always subscribed to the
"Dark Satanic Mills" as pagan temples, it is a religious poem extolling how Jesus came to England when working for Joseph of Arimathea - which is an ancient legend. However like, everything today, people like to put their own interpretations on it. By the way Blake wrote it it Sussex; it was inspired by the walks he took in the glorious Sussex countryside. Parry, who wrote the music, also lived in Sussex. So if we didn't have GOSBTS we could use it!

Your mention of SBTS is a good point to make on this thread.

No doubt there are many posters on this thread that are feverishly advocating a change to the national anthem but would be conversely outraged if BHA chose to change its traditional pre match (and used to be post match) anthem.

Let’s face it, the comments about GSTQ could equally be made for SBTS. As a pre match anthem SBTS is not particularly stirring or intimidating it’s the polar opposite. It’s a militaristic nod to the days of Empire and wasn’t even composed by a Sussex native. Some northern **** from Lancashire is responsible for it...................little wonder that the song was adopted by the local communist party.

However, for all that may be wrong with the song, it’s a key component of our cultural identity as BHA fans, and (most importantly of all) when we sing it together, we can all feel part of the same group. My Dad is an 83yr old season ticket holder (and has been going all his adult life) My Granddad (who was dead before I came along) took my Dad to the football when he was a kid.

That song more than any other aspect of BHA (apart from the name maybe) is possibly the longest consistent cultural strand enables fans today to link back to our BHA supporting forebears. As far as I am concerned if we changed that song, we may as well become the Brighton Sharks (or whatever)..................it would be the end for me.

And so it’s the same with GSTQ, sure it’s maybe not the song you would chose if you were starting with a country now, but then you would not have a monarchy. But...........and its a big BUT, we are not a new country, we an old country with a long long long history. And that brings me to one of the points I love about GSTQ which is not mentioned on here...............and that is that it is short................its about 25 seconds (15 seconds with a French band). The length of the anthem shows how confident we are, it is to the point with no flim flam.

Those who want change because they are Republicans fair enough but have the balls to call it on that basis; if you are that way inclined the anthem is the least of your worries. Anyone else...............get a f*cking grip of yourselves.

 

[Nibble]

Why would we sing about a place that's not even in the UK?

Read the lyrics. William Blake wrote it while staying in Sussex. The beauty of the county inspired him.

 

[The Spanish]

are the french, germans or americans thinking of changing their anthems? no one can still quite explain why this is essential, apart from 'its a dirge' and the fact the much smaller constituent nations got one to keep them happy bless em.

this debate reminds me of when older kids kick off and get all jealous because the younger one gets a little treat, and the older kid cant quite yet understand its just the parents trying to keep the baby calm.

problem is with all this the shouty people about things like this generally come out on top, not because they talk sense but because they make the most noise.

there is absolutely no reason to change the anthem the England team get played apart from some people fancy it.

Union flag one of the most recognised symbols on earth? nah lets get shot of that.
God Save the Queen one of the handful of national anthems non nationals can generally recognise? nah not good enough lets have a song just because it has the word 'England' in it.

This debate really does my head in.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

problem is with all this the shouty people about things like this generally come out on top, not because they talk sense but because they make the most noise.

Only in terms of the debate though. Generally not much changes. There is a lot more effort involved in changing things that keeping them the same. As a friend of ours said (about their marriage) "Inertia is a very powerful force".

 

[The Spanish]

Only in terms of the debate though. Generally not much changes. There is a lot more effort involved in changing things that keeping them the same. As a friend of ours said (about their marriage) "Inertia is a very powerful force".

fair point.

 

[Nibble]

Jesus, if one believes such flummery, reportedly visited England accompanied by his Uncle Joseph of Aramathea, stopping at Glastonbury, St Ives, Penzance, a church yard near Chysauster village (which is opposite a lovely Inn called the Coldstreamer I stay at frequently) and a tin mine (near what is now The Engineer Inn, a lovely traditional Cornish Inn I also visit frequently) where he spoke to the miners about trade and overcoming hardship.

 

[The Spanish]

Jesus, if one believes such flummery, reportedly visited England accompanied by his Uncle Joseph of Aramathea, stopping at Glastonbury, St Ives, Penzance, a church yard near Chysauster village (which is opposite a lovely Inn called the Coldstreamer I stay at frequently) and a tin mine (near what is now The Engineer Inn, a lovely traditional Cornish Inn I also visit frequently) where he spoke to the miners about trade and overcoming hardship.

cant believe he didnt go to the fking basketmakers as well. mind you half the clientele look like blooming jesus.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Why would we sing about a place that's not even in the UK?

If you listen to the words, it is about building "Jerusalem" (i.e. the perfect Society) in England's green and pleasant land.

 

[Nibble]

cant believe he didnt go to the fking basketmakers as well. mind you half the clientele look like blooming jesus.

He's in The Battle Of Trafalgar, sitting under the statuette of Elvis.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Can you provide some evidence that we are a massive minority?

I'm with you in the massive minority. Nothing against the Queen personally, just the institution.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Aux armes, citoyens ... Formez vos bataillons ... Marchons, marchons !

Allons, enfants de la patrie,
Le jour de gloire est arrive.

 

[Nibble]

I liked the Spitting Image take on LOHAG

"Land of Crisps and Lager"

Joyous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W85UY3BDpPw

 

[W.C.]

Personally, I would like to see us try red and white as our home colours, as it better reflects the colours of the flag and gives a nod to the greatest triumph of the national side.

Agree with this. Ridiculous to suggest the red shirt doesn't reflect our national team's identity. Our most famous sporting moment is linked with it.

Plus, it looks better.

 

[W.C.]

God Save the Queen one of the handful of national anthems non nationals can generally recognise?

utter nonsense

On a par with 'our Royal Family is the envy of other countries'

 

[Simster]

utter nonsense

On a par with 'our Royal Family is the envy of other countries'

It's a shit national anthem on several levels. I hate it and want it changed, but really I don't agree with what you say there. I think The Spanish is right, it is widely recognised. However, I'm not sure what value that holds. Surely it would be better to have an anthem that resonates with an OVERWHELMING majority of English people themselves. I don't give a toss that somebody in the Ukraine knows it as the English (British) national anthem. That person in the Ukraine probably doesn't know the precise difference between England and Britain in any case.

 

[Nibble]

It's firmly entrenched to remind us we are subjects and not citizens. Having said that I couldn't give a tinker's ringpiece whether it stays forever or ****s off tomorrow.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I never knew there was a Jerusalem in England?

Well, there is.

(in Lincolnshire)