Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the holy spirit?

[Trufflehound]

So does my genuine fondness for some of the cultural outpourings of religion - great buildings, works of art, music etc make me a raging hypocrite?

Over the years as a tourist I've probably been in thousands of temples, churches, what have you, representing dozens of faiths.

But in all that time, in all those places, I've always got the impression that the management were either after my soul or my wallet, or both. And so whilst I can admire what they've created architecturally they also lose my respect on spiritual grounds.

Except for ONE place. In the Golden Temple in Amritsar I got the feeling the Sikhs were just happy for me to be there, and were into sharing and pleased to answer my questions without being after anything in return. For that reason alone I probably have more respect for Sikhs than any other faith.

Plus it's a bloody lovely building, despite all the bulletholes placed there courtesy of Indira Gandhi...

 

[NMH]

.....
And more generally, has anyone else noticed that converts to religion tend to be the most forthright / ardent believers of the religion? An unusually large proportion of the fundamentalist muslims who you see in the press getting angry about this or that appear to be converts.

The difference in ardour could be explained by the apparent knowledge a 'convert' may have, in experience of their other un-religious life. They can compare, and have rejoiced in their discoveries or new-found perspectives. Someone who blandly accepts a doctrine would be less inclined to be 'on fire' for that doctrine, because by nature they have accepted without having had to seek it.

As to whether they interpret doctrine correctly and enact it honourably is another matter. Affecting someone else by bad deeds is hardly going to convert the victim to another perspective, is it!

 

[NMH]

Incidentally, if god is love does that mean whenever I love something I am god?

Or could it be, as the 'zennists' have been teaching for thousands of years, that love is in fact god?

Why change the act from feeling love to actually being it? If love is god and you feel love, then shouldn't that mean you are feeling god? You are changing the meaning in the sentence to confuse....perhaps to confuse yourself.
Why?

 

[Meade's Ball]

I thought about religion after waking from the sort of muddying coma that might toss me to the clouds and herald me a blessed, winged winner if i commit to believe. And i could see how loss and tragedy can quite easily mean a glowering swoon in the company of Him with beard would be welcoming. It was all about answers and their obvious lack in my dimension. So, within the darkness of disbelief comes the dazzling rendition of commercial tenet.
I am still unwell, so gibberish sits where poetry might once have, so i am sorry for that and my lack of sense.

But, in general, i find a reliance on belief just a mirage on what someone refuses to see as fact. After i came round and my personality just quivered unworded but still itself, i everyday sought some truth and answers to why i ached, and some solutions for how i could escape. Church could be an answer. Not one of truth, but one of relief. To turn off thought and quiz. To blame the untouchable below for all that once shone so crisply from the invisible above. Removing oneself from responsibility.
And creating an excuse for fault.

 

[lost in london]

I thought about religion after waking from the sort of muddying coma that might toss me to the clouds and herald me a blessed, winged winner if i commit to believe. And i could see how loss and tragedy can quite easily mean a glowering swoon in the company of Him with beard would be welcoming. It was all about answers and their obvious lack in my dimension. So, within the darkness of disbelief comes the dazzling rendition of commercial tenet.
I am still unwell, so gibberish sits where poetry might once have, so i am sorry for that and my lack of sense.

But, in general, i find a reliance on belief just a mirage on what someone refuses to see as fact. After i came round and my personality just quivered unworded but still itself, i everyday sought some truth and answers to why i ached, and some solutions for how i could escape. Church could be an answer. Not one of truth, but one of relief. To turn off thought and quiz. To blame the untouchable below for all that once shone so crisply from the invisible above. Removing oneself from responsibility.
And creating an excuse for fault.

I love your posts. Poetry.

Does that make me gay?

 

[readingstockport]

Why change the act from feeling love to actually being it? If love is god and you feel love, then shouldn't that mean you are feeling god? You are changing the meaning in the sentence to confuse....perhaps to confuse yourself.
Why?

Cyclical logic there nhm. If I am feeling love and god is love does it not mean that I am god? Not that I am feeling god. Perhaps there is no god, there is only love and you are confusing the feeling of love with the 'experience' of 'god'.

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

Of course having said all that, I'm starting to think that Meade's Ball might be God.....

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

What HH said, bloody good post.

So does my genuine fondness for some of the cultural outpourings of religion - great buildings, works of art, music etc make me a raging hypocrite?

Yes MoH it does I am afraid.

You are only allowed to look at and appreciate architecture and art of an irreligious nature, and only listen to music with no spiritual dimension whatsoever (can i suggest Boyzone)

 

[Commander]

Of course having said all that, I'm starting to think that Meade's Ball might be God.....

I have been flirting with this idea for a while now.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I thought about religion after waking from the sort of muddying coma that might toss me to the clouds and herald me a blessed, winged winner if i commit to believe. And i could see how loss and tragedy can quite easily mean a glowering swoon in the company of Him with beard would be welcoming. It was all about answers and their obvious lack in my dimension. So, within the darkness of disbelief comes the dazzling rendition of commercial tenet.
I am still unwell, so gibberish sits where poetry might once have, so i am sorry for that and my lack of sense.

But, in general, i find a reliance on belief just a mirage on what someone refuses to see as fact. After i came round and my personality just quivered unworded but still itself, i everyday sought some truth and answers to why i ached, and some solutions for how i could escape. Church could be an answer. Not one of truth, but one of relief. To turn off thought and quiz. To blame the untouchable below for all that once shone so crisply from the invisible above. Removing oneself from responsibility.
And creating an excuse for fault.

If it's any consolation you make more sense to me now than you did before. And as for gibberish rather than poetry you do yourself a disservice, but I think deep down you know that. Bless you MB.

 

[Commander]

If it's any consolation you make more sense to me now than you did before. And as for gibberish rather than poetry you do yourself a disservice, but I think deep down you know that. Bless you MB.

Exactly- see my sig.

 

[Gwylan]

So does my genuine fondness for some of the cultural outpourings of religion - great buildings, works of art, music etc make me a raging hypocrite?

I saw a great quote the other day. "If it hadn't been for Bach, God would have been forgotten".

Of course, the guy who said it was speaking from a western Christian viewpoint but there's a fundamental truth there. I'm a devout atheist but I revere Bach above all other artists: he's almost enough to make me believe.

You're right, MoH, so many great works of art have been inspired by some form of religion and that's OK by me. And I don't feel it's hypocritical to say so.

 

[coventrygull]

This is quite long but if you have the time its quite thought provoking http://www.iosho.com/AAA/browser1A.html

 

[NMH]

Cyclical logic there nhm. If I am feeling love and god is love does it not mean that I am god? Not that I am feeling god. Perhaps there is no god, there is only love and you are confusing the feeling of love with the 'experience' of 'god'.

Since you cannot actually 'be' God (not the creator of light, earth and life anyway), then I can only possibly suggest that you can feel god or feel the 'experience' of godly presence. Whatever you deem that feeling to be, you can appreciate how good it feels regardless of what it might be considered as down to. People certainly do feel love without attributing it to any higher being than the spirit that moves them within.

 

[Dave the OAP]

I'm a devout atheist but I revere Bach above all other artists: he's almost enough to make me believe.

You wouldnt say that if you were trying to get your vocal chords around Bach's Magnificat with only 5 weeks rehearsals to go

 

[NMH]

I saw a great quote the other day. "If it hadn't been for Bach, God would have been forgotten".

In America, they put it down to The Bach Boys.


quick nurse, hat...coat....

 

[NMH]

I love your posts. Poetry.

Does that make me gay?

Gayness, is a nicht-nicht

Gatherings of people all talking together in a godly way? That is an ach ja.



(ref. Ali G show)

 

[readingstockport]

Since you cannot actually 'be' God (not the creator of light, earth and life anyway), then I can only possibly suggest that you can feel god or feel the 'experience' of godly presence. Whatever you deem that feeling to be, you can appreciate how good it feels regardless of what it might be considered as down to. People certainly do feel love without attributing it to any higher being than the spirit that moves them within.

No, you're starting from the supposition that god exists. AFAIC there is no such thing therefore what I feel cannot be god. You believe, I don't.
Your presupposition that you are correct does not make you so. I am asking you what if you are wrong? What is it that I feel? I am open minded enough to admit that if I am wrong then what I feel is god, I just don't think god exists. Are you willing to admit you could be wrong?


Incidentally, would you care to answer my question that I asked Withdean and I

"Now, a question for you?

I do not believe in god, I do not believe in any regligion. We are all there is. We are born, we live, we die. End of. I live a good live, I don't steal, I don't commit adultery, I don't murder and I don't worship craven idols. What is my eventual fate on my death according to your god and your religion?

If god exists what is my fate on my death."

 

[Man of Harveys]

I revere Bach above all other artists: he's almost enough to make me believe.

I agree - Bach is the mutt's nuts. Have you been to the pretty Hanseatic town of Luebeck? You can visit the church to which he walked 800km there and, ahem, bach... in order to hear his idol Buxtehude playing the organ. Plus, slightly less cerebrally, it's where they - and NOT "God" - invented marzipan.

 

[Meade's Ball]

If it's any consolation you make more sense to me now than you did before. And as for gibberish rather than poetry you do yourself a disservice, but I think deep down you know that. Bless you MB.

Unfortunately, there's still nettled pain in each parcel of improvement. Even right this moment my brain pulsates with menace and the promise of living harm from birth.
Things do seem strangely clearer to me, yes. So there's good news in that way. But, still so much confused that i am consistently adrift from what i mean or wish to control, and only daily get to recognise the 12 months of what i breathed without.

Thanks for the comment. Just don't believe that the deadly undead might be worthy of your praise or worship.