Do you believe in Jesus Christ and the holy spirit?

[bhaexpress]

Not sure about flounce but if Juan Albion gets on-board he's bound to entertain us with his unique brand of righteous patronising arrogance.

Have to say that of late he has got a bit extreme, it may be his way of life but most of us find it rather silly.

 

[Gwylan]

I was brought up in a Welsh, chapel-going family; seriously hardcore.

I was a devout believer until I was 10 and then saw the light and became an atheist: that was 40 years ago and have been one ever since. Can't see myself changing my mind, Pascal's wager or no Pascal's wager.

See no reason to mock it though: I always respect other people's beliefs and still believe that the Bible offers a strong ethical code to live by - I just can't believe all the mumbo-jumbo.

 

[Frutos]

I went for Option 3.

 

[Brovion]

Not sure about flounce but if Juan Albion gets on-board he's bound to entertain us with his unique brand of righteous patronising arrogance.

Funny you should say that because the most abuse I've got on here during a religious argument was from him - and nominally we're on the same side!

Likewise in 'real life' the biggest religious argument I've ever had was with a group of Born-Again, Fundementalist Evangelicals who, because I'm good ol' wishy-washy "a lot of the bible is complete rubbish, actually" CofE, saw me as little more than a well-meaning atheist.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Is Juan Albion a man or a woman? I could swear in one of my exchange of views with JA reference was made to "my husband" I also think Juan may be a priest of some description from other correspondence.

I think religion is the first refuge of the lazy mind, and allows those involved in it to either abdicate responsibility for their own lives, or to justify ridiculous controls by priests on their fellow man.

I do believe in god, but I think that he is a living deity who will speak directly to you, no need to listen to some bloke in a purple frock.

 

[byf]

Is Juan Albion a man or a woman? I could swear in one of my exchange of views with JA reference was made to "my husband" I also think Juan may be a priest of some description from other correspondence.

I think religion is the first refuge of the lazy mind, and allows those involved in it to either abdicate responsibility for their own lives, or to justify ridiculous controls by priests on their fellow man.

I do believe in god, but I think that he is a living deity who will speak directly to you, no need to listen to some bloke in a purple frock.

Youve made a good point there. I dont believ in the catholic way of teaching nor do I follow a religeon.

I believe It is a personal relationship with God and Jesus Christ.

 

[Commander]

Anyway, how do we know that it is Jesus that was right and not Allah or Buddah or David Koresh?!

That is my biggest problem with religion. Every faith are all convinced they are right, and that everyone else is wrong. It doesn't add up.

 

[Titanic]

"If the Bible has taught us anything—which it hasn't—it's that girls should stick to girl's sports like hot oil wrestling, foxy boxing and such and such." - Homer J Simpson

 

[Barrel of Fun]

I object to this ethos of leading a “good Christian life”. It is true that many of these scriptures/parables have a powerful message on how one should behave. The Good Samaritan et al, but it is through personal choice that I follow these examples, basic human nature and not as part of a religious ‘sect’.

I spent a large amount of time in my chapel at school (Two services a week) etc. but I felt completely distanced from this idea that you must give yourself to ‘God’ to access ever lasting life and salvation from all evils.

The bible was just a convenient explanation as to why we are on this planet and what purpose we serve.

I feel that there is no proof that God exists and there is certainly no proof that God created the world.

 

[NMH]

I believe there is a creator, that nature is the name, and that it is wonderful all powerful and should be respected and worshipped.

If a religion brings people to behave well, approach each other properly and with respect for their way to worship, then that must be a good channel/conduit for the person. There have to be several ways for people to gather, as there are various cultures, but why they battle and kill one another only underlines human stupidity.

I doubt anyone who claims that they are of a religion, and entitle themselves of that religion. Having gathered with Christians, I have met some of the most arrogant, argumentative, unforgiving hypocritical SCUM that could possibly plague this earth, and you just know that this problem runs through most doctrines.

To lead, in these religions, requires that someone heralds their faith by EXAMPLE, and so many leaders are surreptitious, closetting away their awful sinning, which they will NOT turn back from because they feel admonished by their 'leadership' and by preaching the 'faith' that they constantly shake.
I trust religious leaders as far as I could throw the house they lead in!

Hypocrisy is RIFE among the religious, and much of the time their deiety is unbending and fully presenting of a lack of tolerance, mercy, love and general godliness.

imco.

 

[Man of Harveys]

That is my biggest problem with religion. Every faith are all convinced they are right, and that everyone else is wrong. It doesn't add up.

That's not true though. Plenty of religions accept the validity of other faiths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism

 

[Hungry Joe]

I feel that there is no proof that God exists and there is certainly no proof that God created the world.

It depends on your definition of God as a creative force. If you accept that the universe was formed then this creation itself and the forces it used can be taken as God or a Godhead. That's where all religion and science starts from, an attempt to explain it all. It certainly is no coincidence that earlier pagan religions or belief structures used more natural figures as their godheads as they were limited to the experiences of their immediate surroundings and their imagination. Hence Mother Nature is God and she takes on various guises depending on the environment you lived in. As human experience has expanded and the majority of us have looked more outward and have become more removed from the natural world immediately around us then the nature of religion and science has changed too into bigger and wider theories and explanations that leave the older versions seeming strange or irrelevant.

Many modern Christians, like Brovian, accept that the basis of their faith through the Bible doesn't fit in a modern world and therefore interpret it's teachings less rigidly. Likewise some other religions such as Buddhism are open in admitting that they are using metaphor as a way of gaining enlightenment. It's all about personal choice as to how you see yourself in the world and what best fits for you. That's why any religion that dictates a way of life and a belief structure seems about as unspiritual as you can get to me.

 

[magoo]

I have nothing against religion. I do have something against the people that twist it and mould it to suit themselves, which is most religious people.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

It depends on your definition of God as a creative force. If you accept that the universe was formed then this creation itself and the forces it used can be taken as God or a Godhead. That's where all religion and science starts from, an attempt to explain it all. It certainly is no coincidence that earlier pagan religions or belief structures used more natural figures as their godheads as they were limited to the experiences of their immediate surroundings and their imagination. Hence Mother Nature is God and she takes on various guises depending on the environment you lived in. As human experience has expanded and the majority of us have looked more outward and have become more removed from the natural world immediately around us then the nature of religion and science has changed too into bigger and wider theories and explanations that leave the older versions seeming strange or irrelevant.

Many modern Christians, like Brovian, accept that the basis of their faith through the Bible doesn't fit in a modern world and therefore interpret it's teachings less rigidly. Likewise some other religions such as Buddhism are open in admitting that they are using metaphor as a way of gaining enlightenment. It's all about personal choice as to how you see yourself in the world and what best fits for you. That's why any religion that dictates a way of life and a belief structure seems about as unspiritual as you can get to me.

Crikey Hungry, here was me thinking that you were a complete Philistine with a love of abusive language and you come out with that little well observed nugget.

Talk about challenging the accepted view.

 

[Withdean and I]

Yes I do.

If you had asked me two years ago or so I would have voted in the 'No' category.

I became a Christian when I did the 'Alpha Course' this time last year. In fact it was a year ago today that I made the decision to ask Jesus into my life.

I will be getting baptised in the not to distant future.

I never thought that I would end up where I am today, but all I can say is that I have found a truth, a hope, and a real purpose to life.

God is real, god is changing peoples lives for the better, he is rescuing people from addictions and ruined lives etc etc.

All I can say is that if all of us were to follow, and actually live out what Jesus asks of us, then we would have heaven on earth.

At the moment you would not choose to walk through the streets of London late at night on your own. If we were all following Jesus, we would be quite happy to do that. Everyone would just say hello and smile as we walked by, we would have no fear of being mugged or worse.

Don't just respond to this with small minded abuse. Actuall look for yourself, try the Alpha Course, there's one near you starting soon, it may just change your life.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Crikey Hungry, here was me thinking that you were a complete Philistine with a love of abusive language and you come out with that little well observed nugget.

Talk about challenging the accepted view.

I have my moments. Normally I just come on here to piss about.

 

[byf]

Yes I do.

If you had asked me two years ago or so I would have voted in the 'No' category.

I became a Christian when I did the 'Alpha Course' this time last year. In fact it was a year ago today that I made the decision to ask Jesus into my life.

I will be getting baptised in the not to distant future.

I never thought that I would end up where I am today, but all I can say is that I have found a truth, a hope, and a real purpose to life.

God is real, god is changing peoples lives for the better, he is rescuing people from addictions and ruined lives etc etc.

All I can say is that if all of us were to follow, and actually live out what Jesus asks of us, then we would have heaven on earth.

At the moment you would not choose to walk through the streets of London late at night on your own. If we were all following Jesus, we would be quite happy to do that. Everyone would just say hello and smile as we walked by, we would have no fear of being mugged or worse.

Don't just respond to this with small minded abuse. Actuall look for yourself, try the Alpha Course, there's one near you starting soon, it may just change your life.





It does make you feel fantastic and its hard to describe.

 

[NMH]

I object to this ethos of leading a “good Christian life”. It is true that many of these scriptures/parables have a powerful message on how one should behave. The Good Samaritan et al, but it is through personal choice that I follow these examples, basic human nature and not as part of a religious ‘sect’.

I spent a large amount of time in my chapel at school (Two services a week) etc. but I felt completely distanced from this idea that you must give yourself to ‘God’ to access ever lasting life and salvation from all evils.

The bible was just a convenient explanation as to why we are on this planet and what purpose we serve.

I feel that there is no proof that God exists and there is certainly no proof that God created the world.

That seems a good overview BoF, you rightly suggest that we can live as good people and represent good behaviour without having to credit a doctrine.
Surely that is a reasonable 'purpose', without having to accept the 'purpose' that a religious interpretation has to get accredited for? Why does one need to have a heading in order to do good?

I accept that it's the bad people that need guidance, so that's who should be encouraged to get it - but then they often exhibit a poor representation, whilst still maintaining that they are under a religious 'flag', or that 'God is on their side'!

However, for the last bit, you suggest that there's no proof that God exists or created the world - but then you have to have a pre-determined fixed notion of who and what God actually is - a bit I find questionable.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Yes I do.



At the moment you would not choose to walk through the streets of London late at night on your own. If we were all following Jesus, we would be quite happy to do that. Everyone would just say hello and smile as we walked by, we would have no fear of being mugged or worse.

I am pleased that you have found something that you are committed to, but I think that saying that if we were all followers of Christ we would not fear each other is a bit rich, why can't we realise that if we hurt someone else we are just hurting ourselves?, I count myself as being someone who would never knowingly hurt another human being, and I don't believe that Jesus is my saviour, I don't see that the two things are related in any way.

While we are at it, wasn't it followers of Jesus who decided that they were going to make it very uncomfortable for Muslims walking around the Holy land during the crusades... not much helloing and smiling there.

 

[readingstockport]

Interestingly I know several people who have experienced (and still do so on an ongoing basis) satori or enlightenment of the zennish kind. Their description of the experience is exactly the same as the descriptions that I have heard from some 'born again' religious people of all faiths.

Leads me to the conclusion that either god exists and allow non-religious people to experience the same things as those who worship him/her/it, which strikes me as silly else why all the stuff about having to worship to gain salvation.

OR

god does not exist and the experience of 'religion' is a self-actualising belief process/experience that anyone and everyone can experience without the need for belief in imaginary deities.