Derek Chapman has a swipe at DK

[drew]

I'm not going to go down the utterly tedious road of dissecting the difference between someone's bank account getting paid and someone's company in which they are a major shareholder getting paid, you're much more interesting when talking about your porn habits than your forensic accounting ones. "The someone" benefits in both cases.

Who lit the fire? Dick Knight put out the biggest bloody fire in the history of the club in his time as chairman - and DOESN'T deserve criticism for selling his shares from someone who also got some financial benefit from his Albion connections.

Firstly, you have zero evidence that DC has profited directly from the Albion as I suspect he has put in far more than he ever got in way of dividends from Adenstar's Albion related work. Presumably when you now state he has got financial benefit from his Albion connections, you are referring to other consultancy work that he has got on the back of the excellent work he did on project managing the Amex. What is wrong with that? If another organisation looks at the Amex and thinks it was a good job why should DC not get paid by them? Or are you still suggesting that he has earnt a lot from work done for the Albion?

With regard to your first paragraph, is that an admission you don't understand the difference? As has been mentioned, he is a major shareholder of Adenstar but the dividends he has earnt on the back of Albion related work are almost certainly insignificant compared to the money he has pumped into the club. So, on his personal Albion balance sheet, he is in deficit.

 

[Buzzer]

DOESN'T deserve criticism for selling his shares from someone who also got some financial benefit from his Albion connections.

Once again, no, no and no. You use the word 'benefit' but you simply don't know if there was any financial benefit from Adenstar doing work at Withdean. There was remuneration, no-one's denying that, but without knowing what business opportunities were foregone in doing this work then you have not got a scoobies whether there was any 'benefit' at all.

 

[rool]

How did the club pay then? Ah yes, the directors put the funds in, one of which was DC who may well have been using money

That seems to be a rather pointed response to my reply to Ernest. Ernest asked whether DC had paid the club's bills for the works out of his own pocket. I merely stated that it appears that the club paid (as Stat Brother added, eventually).

 

[drew]

That seems to be a rather pointed response to my reply to Ernest. Ernest asked whether DC had paid the club's bills for the works out of his own pocket. I merely stated that it appears that the club paid (as Stat Brother added, eventually).

I was making the point that the club didn't pay anything because there was nothing in the kitty. The directors paid the bills so, in effect, DC was contributing to the invoices from his own company!! Surely you can see that?

 

[London Irish]

as I suspect he has put in far more than he ever got in way of dividends from Adenstar's Albion related work

Yes, I suspect that too, in fact it's a cast iron certainty he has - just as Dick Knight will put in far more than he will ever get paid for its shares. Yet Chapman presumably thinks it's fine to get the Albion-boosted dividend payments, and not fine to get paid for shares. That's a double standard.

 

[Acker79]

(numbers to illustrate point only).

DC (to the board): here's my £100,000 towards the bill toward adenstar for their work to add to the money you have all put in.
Club (to adenstar): here's the £1m for the work you did
Adenstar (to DC): After materials and labour, we've split the small profit, here's your £35,000 share of them.
Accountant (to DC): You realise you're £65k down on this deal, right?

Possible, no?

 

[drew]

Yes, I suspect that too, in fact it's a cast iron certainty he has - just as Dick Knight will put in far more than he will ever get paid for its shares. Yet Chapman presumably thinks it's fine to get the Albion-boosted dividend payments, and not fine to get paid for shares. That's a double standard.

See below!

(numbers to illustrate point only).

DC (to the board): here's my £100,000 towards the bill toward adenstar for their work to add to the money you have all put in.
Club (to adenstar): here's the £1m for the work you did
Adenstar (to DC): After materials and labour, we've split the small profit, here's your £35,000 share of them.
Accountant (to DC): You realise you're £65k down on this deal, right?

Possible, no?

I think you might need to simplify that even more for LR!!!!

 

[rool]

I was making the point that the club didn't pay anything because there was nothing in the kitty. The directors paid the bills so, in effect, DC was contributing to the invoices from his own company!! Surely you can see that?

Seriously, what are you arguing about? I can see that. I was using DC's own words in the opening post regarding the club paying regardless of where the funds came from in response to a question from ERNEST. Why you feel the need to make an issue of it is a bit of a mystery.

 

[London Irish]

This is just wriggling. Do you think Martin Perry deserved the criticism that came his way in DK's book?

Ha, you want to discuss the entire book now? Some of us are working!

 

[El Presidente]

Yes, I suspect that too, in fact it's a cast iron certainty he has - just as Dick Knight will put in far more than he will ever get paid for its shares. Yet Chapman presumably thinks it's fine to get the Albion-boosted dividend payments, and not fine to get paid for shares. That's a double standard.

But DK has received £400,000 for his shares. So once again you are factually incorrect.

 

[Commander]

Yes. Without access to Adenstar's historical order books and tenders you are making an awful lot of assumptions with no foundation other than your clear grudge against DC. Apparently you are a financial journalist (is that right?) and therefore well aware of the concept of opportunity costs.

I don't think it's a grudge against DC in particular, it's a grudge against anyone involved who isn't DK. Let's not forget this was the poster calling for Tony Bloom to get out of the club a few years ago. Great call there, LI.

 

[El Presidente]

Ha, you want to discuss the entire book now? Some of us are working!

It's disappointing, (but in keeping with your profession) that you choose to present a Stasi style analysis of the debate.

1: DC has not received money for his shares, DK has.
2: DC has questioned the motives that DK has for selling worthless shares to fans, pointing out that it will put an administrative cost on the Alibon, at a time when compliance with FFP has meant that all costs are being scrutinised. DK had ample opportunity to sell fans shares during his tenure as chairman of the club. He chose not to do so.
3: You take the view that DK should not be criticised, but it is acceptable for him to criticise others.

Oh, and I'm working too

 

[London Irish]

I think you might need to simplify that even more for LR!!!!

Drew, when you conceded the point that Chapman received Albion-related dividends, you entirely made my case for me. Thanks.
Now let Dick have his own form of Chapman's dividend payments, who are you to say he doesn't deserve it given what he achieved for the club?

 

[El Presidente]

Drew, when you conceded the point that Chapman received Albion-related dividends, you entirely made my case for me. Thanks.
Now let Dick have his own form of Chapman's dividend payments, who are you to say he doesn't deserve it given what he achieved for the club?

He's received £400,000 for his worthless shares from TB.

 

[London Irish]

Oh, and I'm working too

Not as hard as me clearly And is Stasi-style analysis some kind of bizarre lefty version of Godwin's law?

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

This is just wriggling. Do you think Martin Perry deserved the criticism that came his way in DK's book?

Apologies, I can't remember who has actually read the book and who hasn't. Are you referring only to the "Et tu, Brute" passage quoted in the Argus, or the book in general (in which he's described as "my trusted lieutenant")?

 

[London Irish]

He's received £400,000 for his worthless shares from TB.

And you have decided that quite's enough, have you? I think Albion fans will decide that, I'll be buying some.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

He's received £400,000 for his worthless shares from TB.

This is just me being nosy and not likely (or intended) to move the argument forward at all, but there is a known figure on one side of this discussion (the £400,000) but no figures are known on the other. It's none of my business, but I'd be interested to know what Derek Chapman's idea of a "small profit" is. Well-off people's idea of a small profit could be very different from that of less well-off people (like me).

 

[El Presidente]

And you have decided that quite's enough, have you? I think Albion fans will decide that, I'll be buying some.

On a financial modeling basis they are worthless, if you want to buy them for emotional or mischief making purposes that is a separate issue.

 

[El Presidente]

This is just me being nosy and not likely (or intended) to move the argument forward at all, but there is a known figure on one side of this discussion (the £400,000) but no figures are known on the other. It's none of my business, but I'd be interested to know what Derek Chapman's idea of a "small profit" is. Well-off people's idea of a small profit could be very different from that of less well-off people (like me).

Fair comment, and I have commented (and indeed highlighted) the revenues earned by Adenstar in previous threads. The amount invoiced in the past three years is £2.1 million.