"Deborah (13): Servant of God" on tonight 22.30 BBC3

[mr sheen]

Fair dos, CG. I didn't see the film and it sounds like the family are hat stand. I see though, on this thread that some use it to have a go at anyone who instils Christian beliefs into their kids.

A bit like having a go at parents who let their children play footie just because some negligent sicko parents let their kids support Man U.

Indeed, there's plenty of worse values to instil in your kids than christian ones. And I'm an atheist.

 

[Mellotron]

I havent read the book and have no intension to, but I found the above quite a common theme coming from Christians whose religion is criticised.

That being, unless you are one - You have no right to discuss it. We are right, everyone else is wrong.

So what if he is a zoologist, so what if he isn't a Christian ?

He has every right to criticize. But he makes out he knows how Christians act, think and feel, and that's what he bases a lot of his arguments on.

How can he?

He doesn't discuss it. He acts as if he is the Grand High Authority on it. He's a zoologist. Of course he can have a considered view, but why should it be more valid than the next man on the street?

 

[clapham_gull]

Fair dos, CG. I didn't see the film and it sounds like the family are hat stand. I see though, on this thread that some use it to have a go at anyone who instils Christian beliefs into their kids.

A bit like having a go at parents who let their children play footie just because some negligent sicko parents let their kids support Man U.

It seems we have very similiar views on the subject. There is so many things positive about all religions, I'm not got a problem with say "forgiveness" being wrapped up in a religion if need to know why they forgive people.

But last night I failed to see anything positive about the family at all. It was full of hatred of the world around them, rather than seeing any positive in it.

I frankly hate the idea that you can be the most caring, forgiving person in the world. But if you don't believe in God - you're off to hell.

That's evil.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I havent read the book and have no intension to, but I found the above quite a common theme coming from Christians whose religion is criticised.

That being, unless you are one - You have no right to discuss it. We are right, everyone else is wrong.

So what if he is a zoologist, so what if he isn't a Christian ?

you mean the common theme of someone defending what they believe in ? Why is that so bizzare and why do you think it is more common in a Christian than anyone else?

 

[Lokki 7]

Not at all. But he talks in such a smug, self-satisfied way that he clearly sees himself as an authority on a subject

Did you listen to the pope's address over Easter. Could not possibly be more smug, self deluded or self important then that ignorant prick.

 

[clapham_gull]

He has every right to criticize. But he makes out he knows how Christians act, think and feel, and that's what he bases a lot of his arguments on.

How can he?

He doesn't discuss it. He acts as if he is the Grand High Authority on it. He's a zoologist. Of course he can have a considered view, but why should it be more valid than the next man on the street?

Well there you go then.

You've just stated he can't understand Christians because he isn't one.

Why is the fact he is a zoologist relevant ? Does that make him one of those evil Scientist people who pray at Darwins altar ?

 

[clapham_gull]

you mean the common theme of someone defending what they believe in ? Why is that so bizzare and why do you think it is more common in a Christian than anyone else?

Defending ?

I have a problem with any form of religion that fails to appreciate other belief systems as valid. Even if the belief systems themselves aren't religions.

I take it you didn't watch the programme last night either.

I also didn't state it was more common in Christianity, I just find it common thing when talking to people who describe themselves as "Christians".

As I've already stated - I find more positive aspects of religions than negative ones.

I have absolutely no time at all with the belief that unless you believe, you are going to hell. Do you think then on that basis I am going to hell ?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Cue rabid religious nonsense.

 

[Lokki 7]

Indeed, there's plenty of worse values to instil in your kids than christian ones. And I'm an atheist.

What are Christian values? They are some of the good bits of the bible, edited highlights if you will. But why are they CHRISTIAN? Moral values existed before Christianity and they will exist long after Christianity has died. Christians claiming ownership of these human values is laughable.

 

[Mellotron]

Well there you go then.

You've just stated he can't understand Christians because he isn't one.

Why is the fact he is a zoologist relevant ? Does that make him one of those evil Scientist people who pray at Darwins altar ?

No I didn't. I said he TELLS US how Christians think, act and feel.

I wouldn't tell you (with authority) how lesbians think, act and feel would I? I'm an Office Administrator.

Because being a zoologist does not make you an authority on Christian Psychology. He CLEARLY sees himself as an authority on the subject.

Not at all. Why would you assume I was anti-Darwin? Very few Christians nowadays are pure Creationists.

 

[Lokki 7]

Because being a zoologist does not make you an authority on Christian Psychology. He CLEARLY sees himself as an authority on the subject.

But you don't need to know how Hitler was feeling to be able to understand that his belief system was f***ed up. Dawkins being smug doesn't also make him necessarily wrong.

 

[clapham_gull]

No I didn't. I said he TELLS US how Christians think, act and feel.

I wouldn't tell you (with authority) how lesbians think, act and feel would I? I'm an Office Administrator.

Because being a zoologist does not make you an authority on Christian Psychology. He CLEARLY sees himself as an authority on the subject.

Not at all. Why would you assume I was anti-Darwin? Very few Christians nowadays are pure Creationists.

So who is an authority on how Christians act and feel then ?

As an Office Admistrator you may well study lesbians in your spare time. You have every right to publish a book on them if you so wish and express a point of view.

 

[mr sheen]

What are Christian values? They are some of the good bits of the bible, edited highlights if you will. But why are they CHRISTIAN? Moral values existed before Christianity and they will exist long after Christianity has died. Christians claiming ownership of these human values is laughable.

But it doesn't mean that the values aren't good ones does it?

 

[Mellotron]

What are Christian values? They are some of the good bits of the bible, edited highlights if you will. But why are they CHRISTIAN? Moral values existed before Christianity and they will exist long after Christianity has died. Christians claiming ownership of these human values is laughable.

Please give an example in the Western world of a set of values in practice in a society before Christianity that promoted equality between all classes, races and genders. That also promoted peace and love.

I don't think Christians can 100% claim "ownership".

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

No I didn't. I said he TELLS US how Christians think, act and feel.

I wouldn't tell you (with authority) how lesbians think, act and feel would I? I'm an Office Administrator.

Because being a zoologist does not make you an authority on Christian Psychology. He CLEARLY sees himself as an authority on the subject.

Not at all. Why would you assume I was anti-Darwin? Very few Christians nowadays are pure Creationists.

I'm not a Lesbian but I reckon I could have a decent stab at empathising with how they "think act and feel" because I see myself as a Human being primarily as opposed to an "office administrator"

Your analogy is a poor one.

 

[mr sheen]

I work with a lesbian office administrator. I hope for her sake she's a better lesbian than she is an administrator.

 

[Mellotron]

So who is an authority on how Christians act and feel then ?

As an Office Admistrator you may well study lesbians in your spare time. You have every right to publish a book on them if you so wish and express a point of view.

My point is about his attitude really. He has every right to write what he wants.

He doesn't study Christians from an open, balanced viewpoint though does he?

If I studied Lesbians but only from a clearly disparaging viewpoint and then presented my skewed findings as fact I would expect them to be unhappy with that, wouldn't you?

 

[clapham_gull]

Please give an example in the Western world of a set of values in practice in a society before Christianity that promoted equality between all classes, races and genders. That also promoted peace and love.

I don't think Christians can 100% claim "ownership".

Well back to the programme last night, there wasn't a lot of that going on.

Didn't see much equality being preached between the believers and the sinners.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Please give an example in the Western world of a set of values in practice in a society before Christianity that promoted equality between all classes, races and genders. That also promoted peace and love..

Are you seriously claiming that Christianity promotes love between all classes, denominations,sexualities and creeds?

Seriously?

 

[Lokki 7]

But it doesn't mean that the values aren't good ones does it?

Who decides which bits of the Bible are more valuable then others? People and society. Therefore they are in fact the values of society, not some god given super manual.