[Politics] Brexit

[Soulman]

No mate you're the ****ing idiot if you think that exiting the EU is going to stop those "Foreigners".

1)If we want to trade with the EU (which we will need to) they have said they will only do it with free movement of people.

2) Farage and Johnson have already said that the referendum is NOT about immigration... can they back track anymore on all the BULLSH1T they spouted.

Most immigration is from outside of the EU and of the 0.5% from within the EU 98% pay taxes meaning they pay MUCH MORE into the government pot.

As i sit in my ivory tower i can see people are disgruntled with "their lot" however the rhetoric that it is because of blooding foreigners is ****ing wrong and shameful. Yes i can agree that the government have been neglecting the poor working class (mainly northern) however the EU has **** all to do it. In fact due to the recession that we are likely to hit bringing more years of austerity who the **** do you think will suffer? Yes you got it the people who voted Brexit. I'll be fine in my ivory tower mate.

Norway are not fully in the EU and they deported 8000 a couple of months back. Calling those that do not agree with you expletives and idiot shows you can not handle different opinions. Carry on though.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The irony is that the generation of renters, many of whom would have voted "remain", are likely to benefit from the exit the most.

How on EARTH do you figure that?

Let's say - just for arguments sake - that property falls 20%. UK average is £282,000 so that would take it down £56,000 but still to a point of £226,000. That still needs a 22,000 deposit (assuming 10% although if interest rates are rising and property is falling it's likely that any lender worth their salt will restrict to 80 - 85% mortgages) and a family salary of over 50,000. If interest rates are rising the costs to landlords will be passed on to tenants. If the market is merely falling there's a good chance that any buy to let landlords with cashflow issues will sell up from under their tenants.

Tenants who - being in the poorer income brackets - will suddenly be paying far more for food, fuel and imported goods.

Shall I open the champagne or do you want to?

 

[nicko31]

Hoping/Willing it goes tits up... We haven't even triggered article 50 and yet things are going tits up. Why the **** do you divs not believe or listen to the experts? The economists, the head of the bank of england etc etc etc etc ... oh wait Gove doesn't like experts... Well you go and visit your postman when you're not feeling well..

I really hope the divs prove the inners wrong. What I do know is when storm clouds are ahead construction feels the chill first and that is already happening

 

[Guinness Boy]

What WOULD help generation rent is more houses being built. Should there be a collapse in commercial property and a disappearance of Polish plumbers and Lithuaniuan labourors there isn't a snowball in hell's chance of that happening.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Some of the Brexiters will blame the remainers for anything that happens.

To claim those who voted remain are somehow at fault for what we are seeing is incredible.

It shouldn't be about blaming anyone. Ultimately everything that's happening at the moment is a result of the vote and nobody can argue against that, but where the economy is so closely linked to confidence the remain campaign has to take some of the blame for projecting such a doomsday scenario if the vote didn't go their way: if you tell everyone that there's going to be a recession they will stop spending their money and employers will think twice about employing new people and investors put their money somewhere they consider to be safer.

The debate on this thread has descended into a football match style slanging match, and it's the same on social media. It would be great if we could have a proper debate about the pros and cons of leaving and what people's preferred outcome is now we've voted to leave.

It hasn't helped that the entire government and opposition has fallen apart, I don't think anyone could've predicted that.

The whole "experts" meme is getting boring, it's just taking something that Gove said and using it as a stick to beat people with/stifle any debate. I think everyone on this thread has the intelligence to know what the overall meaning was - that "experts" in the context of the Brexit debate were being used by politicians to tell a specific story that suited their political stance, and BOTH sides were doing it. That happens in politics and I dare say that 6 months ago everyone making that joke would've quite happily ignored the "experts" comment if it was supporting Jeremy Hunt's vision of the NHS or Gove's vision for teachers.

 

[daveinprague]

Norway are not fully in the EU and they deported 8000 a couple of months back. Calling those that do not agree with you expletives and idiot shows you can not handle different opinions. Carry on though.

That will be a good read.You have a link for that?
Fairly certain that 8000 people being deported in Norway, a couple of months back, would have made its way to the NSC referendum debate.

 

[CHAPPERS]

What WOULD help generation rent is more houses being built. Should there be a collapse in commercial property and a disappearance of Polish plumbers and Lithuaniuan labourors there isn't a snowball in hell's chance of that happening.

But surely we've had loads of appreentice schemes in place so we can do these jobs ourselves?

 

[SK1NT]

Norway are not fully in the EU and they deported 8000 a couple of months back. Calling those that do not agree with you expletives and idiot shows you can not handle different opinions. Carry on though.

Without sounding like a child... you started it...

I know you would,thats what makes you an idiot


makes you wonder doesnt it if you had not been such a moron

Nice way to detract yourself from every point i made that shot your bollocks spouted down in flames, but hey how they are just facts...

We all want what's best for the country, that we can agree on, however i just cannot understand the Brexit vote. When all the experts say stay, when all the world leaders say stay.. Well not all the world leaders... Putin was happy we left oh and trump... Just these facts alone does it really not make you question the Brexit vote.

Do facts really not make you question the Brexit vote?

What do you think will actually change when article 50 is triggered and we eventually leave the EU?

What do you want to change?

Serious questions i have never heard answered properly. I just get shit like 'We won the vote so don't be a bad loser'.

 

[studio150]

Norway are not fully in the EU and they deported 8000 a couple of months back. Calling those that do not agree with you expletives and idiot shows you can not handle different opinions. Carry on though.

Yet again you post details which you put out as facts when they are just wrong.

If you double checked your details you will find that the 8000 was for the whole of 2014 which is the latest for which figures are available, and not 8000 in one month,

No dount you will either post a link to the details to which you refer, or post a retraction for your lies.

 

[ManOfSussex]

That will be a good read.You have a link for that?
Fairly certain that 8000 people being deported in Norway, a couple of months back, would have made its way to the NSC referendum debate.

I just Googled it. The Daily Express covered/got excited about it http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/647663/Norway-police-ordered-deport-9000-migrants-migrant-crisis

Non EU migrants by the looks of it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I just Googled it. The Daily Express covered/got excited about it http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/647663/Norway-police-ordered-deport-9000-migrants-migrant-crisis

Non EU migrants by the looks of it.

The Daily Express does appear to have become the Brexit read of choice at the moment. Richard Desmond must be loving the click bait.

 

[Jim in the West]

What WOULD help generation rent is more houses being built. Should there be a collapse in commercial property and a disappearance of Polish plumbers and Lithuaniuan labourors there isn't a snowball in hell's chance of that happening.

Indeed. Virtually all the things which Brexiteers tried to blame on the EU, we could resolve ourselves. We don't need to leave the EU to build more houses, hospitals, schools, etc. The problem we now face is that we have a self-inflicted recession as a result of Brexit. Meaning there will be FEWER new homes, hospitals and schools.

 

[HitchinSeagull]

On the question of immigrants, a good article in the FT yesterday:

Have you ever noticed how supermarkets run out of fruit salads on sunny days when everyone decides they fancy a picnic? No? That’s because they rarely do. I never really thought about the mechanics behind this until I interviewed a man who supplied temp workers to a British company that made bagged salads and fruit pots. Demand would fluctuate according to the weather, but British weather is notoriously changeable and fresh products have a short shelf life. So the company would only finalise its order for the number of temps it required for the night shift at 4pm on the day. Workers on standby would receive text messages: “you’re on for tonight” or “you’re off”.
Most of this hyper-flexible workforce had come to the UK from Europe. “We wouldn’t eat without eastern Europeans,” the man from the temp agency said confidently. Was he right? Britain might be about to find out. Now that UK citizens have voted narrowly to leave the EU, the country’s immigration policy is in flux. Some want the UK to maintain the free movement of labour in exchange for access to the EU’s single market. But the leading candidates to replace David Cameron as prime minister have said any deal to leave the EU must involve control over future migration, since this was the promise made to Leave voters before the referendum.
There is talk of the country introducing an Australian-style points system that would admit high-skilled migrants such as engineers but stop low-paid migrants like salad-baggers. If that is the policy on the table, it is time for politicians, employers and the public to think seriously about how it would affect the economy.
EU nationals account for 31 per cent of the workers in food manufacturing, 21 per cent of those in hotels and other accommodation, 16 per cent of those in agriculture and 15 per cent of those in warehouses. While current migrants probably won’t be sent home, people who want to limit low-paid migration say this would result in more jobs for British people in future. Yet there are already plenty of jobs for British people. The proportion of UK nationals in work is at a near-record 74.4 per cent, higher than in 2004 when the “A8” eastern European countries joined the EU (which is when migration to the UK began to increase sharply). Torsten Bell, director of the Resolution Foundation think-tank, says the only significant pocket of unemployment left in Britain is among disabled people. “And we’re not about to send them out into the fields”.
There is also something about the nature of these jobs that makes them tough for UK nationals to do. These sectors usually require extreme flexibility from staff: the salad-baggers who wait for a text message to say they have work that night; the cleaners who cobble together piecemeal shifts at dusk and dawn; the fruit pickers living in caravans on farms. When people say “migrants are doing the jobs that Brits are too lazy to do”, they are missing the point. These jobs may be palatable if you are a single person who has come to the UK to earn money as a stepping stone to a better future. But if you live here permanently, have children here, claim benefits here, they are not jobs on which you can easily build a life. Farmers say one reason they cannot attract UK workers is the unwieldy benefit system: it does not make sense to do short-term, low-paid temp work that will wreak havoc with your benefit payments for weeks afterwards.
So employers deprived of access to flexible EU workers would face a choice. They could automate some work, but that would be tricky in sectors such as cleaning. They could stop expanding because they think they could not staff a new meat factory, say, or a new fruit farm. Or they could redesign the jobs to attract UK workers: more stable, less precarious, better paid. Some migrant workers have been pushing for these things already. The UK as a nation could have used regulation to help them. But until now, we seem to have accepted these jobs as they are in exchange for the cheap, convenient goods and services that depend on them. Low-paid migrants are visible, but many of the benefits they bring are invisible: the British strawberries in the shops, that salad on the shelf just when you want it, the office that is dirty when you leave at night but clean on your return. Perhaps we’ll only really know what we’ve got when it’s gone.

Excellent post, whatever side of the debate your on we need clear information on how those who are so quick to clutch at power are actually going to solve questions like these, and hire a panel of experts is not a sufficient answer, quangos or whatever their called leaching 100s of millions (just so politicians have someone to blame when it goes wrong) is a worse proposition than the wastage of Brussels.

 

[5ways]

Norway are not fully in the EU and they deported 8000 a couple of months back. Calling those that do not agree with you expletives and idiot shows you can not handle different opinions. Carry on though.

Norway has higher rates of inward EU migration than the UK does.

 

[daveinprague]

Norway has higher rates of inward EU migration than the UK does.

....plus 8000 were not deported in a month...
It appears to be the period in 2014 when the first thousands fleeing Syria etc turned up, and includes those denied asylum.
Cool story though.

 

[BigGully]

How are we going to be more competitive and what about thw UK economy with an increase in unemployment less investment higher fuel and distribution costs.

But you start with an assumption of a poorer economic outlook, we are already competitive with the second largest economy and third lowest unemployment with Spain (50%), Greece (50%), Croatia (44%) and Italy (43%) youth unemployment and even France posting a significant 25% with the EU area posting a depressing 10% overall and 25% overall youth unemployment twice as much as the UK.

Italy, Greece, Spain, France, Portugal, Latvia, Cyprus, Croatia and Slovakia having twice as many overall unemployed as the UK, whilst we get beaten into third place by less than 1% by only Czech Republic and Germany.

The EU is lot of things but its not a place to turn to for competitiveness or for low unemployment.

 

[Seagull58]

Really? 48% voted to keep the status quo, at least 3% or 4% of the leave voters must have been not bothered by immigration, so I would argue that there is no clear mandate to end free movement of people in Europe.

You can argue all you want but the three Tory leadership contenders have all stated that there is a clear mandate and that they will act on it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You can argue all you want but the three Tory leadership contenders have all stated that there is a clear mandate and that they will act on it.

I think you have that covered!

 

[beorhthelm]

You can argue all you want but the three Tory leadership contenders have all stated that there is a clear mandate and that they will act on it.

despite everything in the past month, you still expect politicians to do as they say? once the leadership is resolved, everything will be revisited, no one has committed enough that hey cant find a way out of anything.

 

[The Clamp]

The whole thing from start to finish was a dis-organised, lie-packed shambles and the right leaning faction saw an opportunity to exploit it and exploit people's naivete. On a level playing field the result would have been quite the opposite. Exactly why Brexiteers are so terrified of a second referendum.