[Politics] Brexit

[Seagull58]

Do you appreciate the difference between a trade deal and access to the single market?

Please explain.

 

[BigGully]

the don't have the small island big ego mentality?

Oh right, says it all .............. is that really your view in your own peoples, especially when comparing it to the complexities and histories of other European countries !!!

 

[Soulman]

Lying Remain camp responsible for eruption of racism
The entire Remain campaign was based on a pack of lies. Most of the scares have already been exposed. But by haunting immigrants with fears of being deported, and thus whipping up race-based hysteria, they have one last card to play in their shameful effort to smash the democratic will of the people.
Keep your eye on the ball. Every lie, every distortion, every piece of scaremongering from the EU Remain camp is aimed at one thing: to overturn the result of a free and fair referendum of the British people on our membership of the European Union.

These scoundrels will stop at nothing, as we saw during the campaign itself. And if, in order to smash the will of the people, they have to whip up such a frenzy that there is an outbreak of xenophobia and even racism, their attitude is this: so be it.
Make no mistake about it. They're sowing fear and division in order to create a pretext for either running another referendum or, better still, getting parliament to ignore the one we've just had.
Think about it. Even after a full Brexit, Britain will still have one of the most liberal immigration policies in the world. Indeed, it will be far more liberal than the European Union's which blatantly discriminates in favour of a predominantly Caucasian Europe and against a predominantly non-Caucasian world.
http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6362/lying_remain_camp_responsible_for_eruption_of_racism

 

[pastafarian]

Do you think the EU will budge on free movement of people? Genuine question. It seems to me that this is fundamentally core to the EU. If they give us access to the single market and we don't have to sign up to free movement of people I think lots of EU member states would try to leave to get the same deal, I just don't see that being allowed to happen from an EU perspective. If we sign up to a deal that allows free movement of people don't we have the same deal as now but with no influence at the EU table?

which one of the Tory hopefuls to take the PM job do you think will go against the referendum vote and negotiate to keep free movement?

Will you promise to end free movement and cut net migration to the tens of thousands?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...le-five-questions-for-five-contenders---here/


Theresa May
“I’m going to set out my negotiating principles in more detail in the coming weeks. But as I said on Thursday, there is clearly no mandate for a deal that involves accepting the free movement of people as it has worked until now. We must regain more control of the numbers of people who come here from Europe, and reduce the numbers that come from outside Europe too. We need immigration to be sustainable and I think net migration in the tens of thousands is sustainable, but it is going to take time.”

Andrea Leadsom
“I absolutely promise to end free movement but the net migration numbers will depend on what is in the UK’s interests.”

Stephen Crabb
“On this issue the British people have been clear. Ending the current free movement arrangements will be a red line in my negotiations.”

Michael Gove
“I will end free movement, restore democratic control of immigration policy and introduce an Australian-style points system by 2020. I will reduce numbers and Parliament will decide exactly what level of immigration there should be.”

Liam Fox
“I would end free movement and I would keep the target to cut net migration to the tens of thousands. I can’t imagine we would need more but the argument is about controlling who you get coming in, not just how many.”

 

[Seagull58]

Agreements

Over the next ten to 15 years, 90% of world demand will be generated outside Europe. That is why it is a key priority for the EU to tap into this growth potential by opening up market opportunities for European businesses abroad. One way of ensuring this is through negotiating agreements with our key partners.

As tariffs are relatively low in world trade today, trade barriers lie behind the customs borders: hence the EU aims to conclude Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreements (DCFTA) that, on top of removing tariffs, also open up markets on services, investment, public procurement and include regulatory issues.

If the EU was to complete all its current free trade talks tomorrow, it could add 2.2% to the EU's GDP or €275 billion. This is equivalent to adding a country as big as Austria or Denmark to the EU economy. In terms of employment, these agreements could generate 2.2 million new jobs or an additional 1% of the EU total workforce.



Trade agreements

Latest developments

United States: TTIP 13th round

Overview of ongoing negotiations
.
Trade negotiations in a nutshell

Free Trade Agreements are designed to create opportunities by:
Opening new markets for goods and services
Increasing investment opportunities
Making trade cheaper - by eliminating substantially all customs duties
Making trade faster - by facilitating goods' transit through customs and setting common rules on technical and sanitary standards
Making the policy environment more predictable - by taking joint commitments on areas that affect trade such as intellectual property rights, competition rules and the framework for public purchasing decisions

 

[BigGully]

I am not saying that we wish to withdraw from trading with the EU, merely that it wont be on the same terms and given that we are outside of the EU overseas countries such as China, japan and others who want to trade with the EU are more likely to set up new manufacturing centres inside the EU than in the UK which is outside.

Yes it a new relationship but are more expensive one in terms of job losses and the impact of devalued pound

I dont accept that, if you are Nisson (for sake of argument) how do you know if the EU doesnt think its Estonia's turn, France's or Belgiums turn to have a factory in one of their own depressed cities, at least now we can compete on our own terms and be more competitive, its our shout to negotiate for ourselves.

 

[biddles911]

which one of the Tory hopefuls to take the PM job do you think will go against the referendum vote and negotiate to keep free movement?

Will you promise to end free movement and cut net migration to the tens of thousands?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...le-five-questions-for-five-contenders---here/


Theresa May
“I’m going to set out my negotiating principles in more detail in the coming weeks. But as I said on Thursday, there is clearly no mandate for a deal that involves accepting the free movement of people as it has worked until now. We must regain more control of the numbers of people who come here from Europe, and reduce the numbers that come from outside Europe too. We need immigration to be sustainable and I think net migration in the tens of thousands is sustainable, but it is going to take time.”

Andrea Leadsom
“I absolutely promise to end free movement but the net migration numbers will depend on what is in the UK’s interests.”

Stephen Crabb
“On this issue the British people have been clear. Ending the current free movement arrangements will be a red line in my negotiations.”

Michael Gove
“I will end free movement, restore democratic control of immigration policy and introduce an Australian-style points system by 2020. I will reduce numbers and Parliament will decide exactly what level of immigration there should be.”

Liam Fox
“I would end free movement and I would keep the target to cut net migration to the tens of thousands. I can’t imagine we would need more but the argument is about controlling who you get coming in, not just how many.”

Hate to play Devil's advocate but the referendum asked no questions about free movement.

Most of this enormous thread seeks to "explain" the vote for Brexit and I see no opinion that can claim to have any legitimacy beyond a personal opinion.

Seems to me that any politician can accept freedom of movement quite legitimately as long as it's coupled with leaving the EU and I suspect they will have to whatever they say now.

It's a cliche but apposite - "be careful what you wish for......as you may get it"!


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[Seagull58]

Hate to play Devil's advocate but the referendum asked no questions about free movement.

Most of this enormous thread seeks to "explain" the vote for Brexit and I see no opinion that can claim to have any legitimacy beyond a personal opinion.

Seems to me that any politician can accept freedom of movement quite legitimately as long as it's coupled with leaving the EU and I suspect they will have to whatever they say now.

It's a cliche but apposite - "be careful what you wish for......as you may get it"!


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Here we go again. How many times have w heard this argument in the past week?
Controlled immigration was one of the key elements of the BREXIT campaign. It one was one of the factors in the BREXIT win (some would argue that it was the only factor). It's inconceivable that the UK negotiating position would not include controlled immigration.

 

[biddles911]

Here we go again. How many times have w heard this argument in the past week?
Controlled immigration was one of the key elements of the BREXIT campaign. It one was one of the factors in the BREXIT win (some would argue that it was the only factor). It's inconceivable that the UK negotiating position would not include controlled immigration.

I hear what you're saying and suspect you're right but it's not what we voted on and I've seen plenty of comments from Brexiteers suggesting immigration wasn't their primary motivation.

The fact that we're still arguing the point rather supports my view. I can't prove the main motivation for the vote but neither can you....


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[Bold Seagull]

Here we go again. How many times have w heard this argument in the past week?
Controlled immigration was one of the key elements of the BREXIT campaign. It one was one of the factors in the BREXIT win (some would argue that it was the only factor). It's inconceivable that the UK negotiating position would not include controlled immigration.

It's inconceivable!?

The only thing that is conceivable is that we have no idea what our negotiating position will be. You don't, I don't, the politicians don't! Fact remains it was a close vote, they could get anything through as a result and dress it up as democratic. 48% voted remain, you only need to say 4% of Brexit voters were happy with single market membership and free movement and you can dress up leaving the EU and doing a deal on single market/free movement. We are just going to have to wait and see.

 

[Seagull58]

I hear what you're saying and suspect you're right but it's not what we voted on and I've seen plenty of comments from Brexiteers suggesting immigration wasn't their primary motivation.

The fact that we're still arguing the point rather supports my view. I can't prove the main motivation for the vote but neither can you....


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I don't have to prove it. Not only was it a major element of the BREXIT campaign but all 5 Tory leadership contenders state that it is their position.

 

[Seagull58]

It's inconceivable!?

The only thing that is conceivable is that we have no idea what our negotiating position will be. You don't, I don't, the politicians don't! Fact remains it was a close vote, they could get anything through as a result and dress it up as democratic. 48% voted remain, you only need to say 4% of Brexit voters were happy with single market membership and free movement and you can dress up leaving the EU and doing a deal on single market/free movement. We are just going to have to wait and see.

All 5 leadership contenders have stated their position - immigration controls.

 

[biddles911]

I don't have to prove it. Not only was it a major element of the BREXIT campaign but all 5 Tory leadership contenders state that it is their position.

Suspect you'll all be disappointed then but hey ho.....


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[pastafarian]

Suspect you'll all be disappointed then but hey ho.....


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That would mean one of the hopefuls negotiating to keep free movement.
So which one of the four PM candidates is going to negotiate to keep free movement?

 

[nicko31]

May 165, rest 164, game over, don't bother with members just get her in and sort this mess.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Didn't realise the pound fell to 1.29 today!

Blimey

 

[Blackadder]

Didn't realise the pound fell to 1.29 today!

Blimey

Yep. Noticed petrol prices creeping up at the weekend,

 

[biddles911]

That would mean one of the hopefuls negotiating to keep free movement.
So which one of the four PM candidates is going to negotiate to keep free movement?

I'm not suggesting that that won't be their opening position just that they are likely to have to back down and accept it to get a decent trade deal.

My original point was that you were stating that the reason for Brexit was control of immigration which was not on the referendum paper so politicians can quite legitimately agree to accept freedom of movement.

That may not be Brexiteers preferred outcome but would be perfectly democratic in terms of the referendum...


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[Seagull58]

Suspect you'll all be disappointed then but hey ho.....


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I won't be disappointed one way or another. I don't have a position on it. The key point is that the person who will be leading the government into the negotiation does, and that position was determined by the BREXIT campaign and the result of the referendum.

 

[biddles911]

I won't be disappointed one way or another. I don't have a position on it. The key point is that the person who will be leading the government into the negotiation does, and that position was determined by the BREXIT campaign and the result of the referendum.

Think we're going round in circles on this one! The only position determined by the referendum was leaving the EU......


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