[Politics] Brexit

[Baldseagull]

we did. he came back with nothing tangible, and had rowed back from previous positions on the issues that where raised. he asked for little and got less.

This is weird, I point you to something tangible that he came back with, and you respond with "he came back with nothing tangible"?
I am trying not to believe that all leave voters were thick, gullible, ignorant or racist, but please do your part to help me.

 

[pb21]

Any Brexiteer care to suggest an EU-inspired law or two that worried them that much?

Apparently they weren't happy with the power of their vacuum cleaners, that was a big one for some reason.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I have to pick this claim up - one I've heard time and time again. Firstly, Remain didn't tell us what the EU would look like in 2030 either. The idea that in 14 years there wouldn't be further integration would be foolish - so what WAS going to be the outcome if we stayed ? We'll put aside that the remain campaign did very little to suggest the positives of staying - only the negatives of leaving.

But the problem with not having an exit strategy is that you could be tied in to that integration without having a vote or veto on it. Example - we agree, as part of exit terms, to free movement in exchange for trade. Turkey then joins. The Leave campaign had that infamous poster about Turkey yet it would be the same outcome under these circumstances. Remain running a negative campaign (and they did, I was saddened by it) doesn't begin to cover the issue that many people may not get what they wanted out of voting Leave, and may be significantly worse off to boot in the medium term. No one knows the long term. No one.

Regardless, how would it be possible for Leave to lay out what the outcome would be when the EU won't negotiate until Article 50 is enacted ?

Do you not think they should have mentioned that in the campaign when challenged, I don't know a single person who knew about Article 50 until AFTER the vote.

 

[Soulman]

Oh do come one and get off your high horse, but be careful you are a long way up. Brexit clowns were already clamouring for a second referendum prior to the first one even being undertaken and then were trotting out tin foil hat conspiracy theories about how it would be rigged blah blah blah.

If the result had been the opposite we would have been flooded with Brexit clowns demanding a second referendum.

"High horse". Not me that has been whining and posting "it's so unfair" etc, like those who thought that Remain was a foregone conclusion. The vote was taken and the result was LEAVE.

 

[Triggaaar]

I am trying not to believe that all leave voters were thick, gullible, ignorant or racist

Nice that you're trying. Which of those am I?

 

[CherryInHove]

"High horse". Not me that has been whining and posting "it's so unfair" etc, like those who thought that Remain was a foregone conclusion. The vote was taken and the result was LEAVE.

Meh. Votes were taken on things such as gay marriage in the past and people truly believed that the decision was wrong and fought and fought to get it legalised. I don't think anyone would suggest that the people who fought for it to be legalised were in the wrong even after the government had decided against it.

This isn't a football game where Leave scored more goals than remain and so it's over. This is more important and it's worth fighting for.

 

[sydney]

Apparently they weren't happy with the power of their vacuum cleaners, that was a big one for some reason.

aahh yes you can all take the piss....but at the end of the day the vote has been taken and although apparently it was the dumb old farts who voted out it is also apparent that less than 30%of people under the age of 25 bothered to vote......so don't fall over yourself giving yerself an upper cut........smugg twatt.

 

[Soulman]

Meh. Votes were taken on things such as gay marriage in the past and people truly believed that the decision was wrong and fought and fought to get it legalised. I don't think anyone would suggest that the people who fought for it to be legalised were in the wrong even after the government had decided against it.

This isn't a football game where Leave scored more goals than remain and so it's over. This is more important and it's worth fighting for.

Diversion alert, diversion alert.

 

[sydney]

maybe corbyn will force an election ...get the p.m gig....dish out 500 quid to everyone so they can get some tattoos and poppers and get a unicorn delivered in the morning......the situation is far from ideal but some of the moaning and whingeing is just ballbreakingly pathetic......ffs......ffs...!!

 

[Baldseagull]

Nice that you're trying. Which of those am I?

You have only revealed the gullible aspect as far as I have noticed. Last time we locked horns you were of the opinion that we could talk a deal up before we invoke article 50, and that Germany will make sure it's sweet because they export a lot here.

 

[nicko31]

Pound lower than $1.31 for the first time since 1985. This is going just great.

Mark Carney is not painting a great picture of things. The weak pound may not increase output as the UK is shunned.

Here's the Sun's political editor who backed Brexit...


Tom Newton Dunn Verified account
‏@tnewtondunn

So; banks' capital reserves to be spent, deficit to go back up, AAA credit rating lost. Six years of economics reversed in 12 days #Brexit

If this is his view he can't have much influence in the press room. What Rupe says goes.....

 

[BigGully]

Fair point(s).

The question is how long and how much we might have to "suffer" before coming out the other side. It defies logic to assume that the economy won't get worse before it gets better (but by how much?).

As a Remainer, I certainly had my reservations about the EU "project" though we do have an opt-out over "ever closer union", of course, which seems to have escaped many Brexiteers?

Can't say sovereignty ever caused me sleepless nights either. Any Brexiteer care to suggest an EU-inspired law or two that worried them that much?

And yes, unbridled immigration did concern me too but I felt it was a price worth paying for free access to the market.

So I suppose I'm saying that both Remainers and Brexiteers had a multiplicity of competing issues to consider and without a further multiple choice referendum we're never going to know what either side considered really important or what shape of Brexit was required.

Rather demonstrates the stupidity of calling a referendum in the first place really!?

My major concern now is that the Government is going to be fully occupied with the consequences of Brexit for many years to come, including the possible break up of the Union, to the exclusion of pretty much anything else.

Hope it's all worth it?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We cannot be sure, I cannot see why or how we are bound to be in a worse position economically outside rather than within, most political and financial commentators agree that our economy has been a success story whilst those perhaps with a greater intimacy to the EU such as France and Italy and others within the Eurozone are failing economically, there seems very little evidence that our success is down to primarily to being within the EU otherwise why arent others enjoying similar successes ?

I am not too sure away from the 'toxic revenge' deals and the inevitable short term uncertainty fluctuations why our position is likely to change too much, with a relatively succeeding economy negotiating with a group of failing economies it seems logical that we can negotiate something that is more positive than some expect.

 

[marshy68]

We cannot be sure, I cannot see why or how we are bound to be in a worse position economically outside rather than within, most political and financial commentators agree that our economy has been a success story whilst those perhaps with a greater intimacy to the EU such as France and Italy and others within the Eurozone are failing economically, there seems very little evidence that our success is down to primarily to being within the EU otherwise why arent others enjoying similar successes ?

I am not too sure away from the 'toxic revenge' deals and the inevitable short term uncertainty fluctuations why our position is likely to change too much, with a relatively succeeding economy negotiating with a group of failing economies it seems logical that we can negotiate something that is more positive than some expect.

Do you think the EU will budge on free movement of people? Genuine question. It seems to me that this is fundamentally core to the EU. If they give us access to the single market and we don't have to sign up to free movement of people I think lots of EU member states would try to leave to get the same deal, I just don't see that being allowed to happen from an EU perspective. If we sign up to a deal that allows free movement of people don't we have the same deal as now but with no influence at the EU table?

 

[symyjym]

Politics was a circus pre-Brexit and it's a circus now.

Cameron has slipped off the high wire. Boris was too heavy for his trapeze catcher. Corbyn is in the cannon, fused and ready, and Farage turns out to be a ring piece not a ringmaster.

They are all a bloody embarrassment to the UK and in reality there are no winners in this.

What we will get is a diluted Brexit that will be 99.9% in line with the EU, with Farage critisising it at arms length.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Politics was a circus pre-Brexit and it's a circus now.

Cameron has slipped off the high wire. Boris was too heavy for his trapeze catcher. Corbyn is in the cannon, fused and ready, and Farage turns out to be a ring piece not a ringmaster.

They are all a bloody embarrassment to the UK and in reality there are no winners in this.

What we will get is a diluted Brexit that will be 99.9% in line with the EU, with Farage critisising it at arms length.

And we all know who will be paying for any losses in the end...

 

[Guinness Boy]

Politics was a circus pre-Brexit and it's a circus now.

Cameron has slipped off the high wire. Boris was too heavy for his trapeze catcher. Corbyn is in the cannon, fused and ready, and Farage turns out to be a ring piece not a ringmaster.

They are all a bloody embarrassment to the UK and in reality there are no winners in this.

What we will get is a diluted Brexit that will be 99.9% in line with the EU, with Farage critisising it at arms length.

 

[Triggaaar]

You have only revealed the gullible aspect as far as I have noticed.

Thanks very much.

Last time we locked horns you were of the opinion that we could talk a deal up before we invoke article 50

I said that we'd be talking behind closed doors before it's invoked. I'm yet to see that isn't the case.

and that Germany will make sure it's sweet because they export a lot here.

I didn't say they'd make it sweet, but they have a lot to lose so I imagine they'll want a deal done. But hey, I would right.

 

[pb21]

Thanks very much.
I said that we'd be talking behind closed doors before it's invoked. I'm yet to see that isn't the case.
I didn't say they'd make it sweet, but they have a lot to lose so I imagine they'll want a deal done. But hey, I would right.

I think there is a lot at stake with any potential deal we may make. The last thing Germany will want is a deal that encourages other states to exit the EU with the potential for the EU to essentially collapse in the process.

Whatever your views of the EU, such a collapse would very definitely not benefit the ordinary man in this country IMO.

 

[BigGully]

Do you think the EU will budge on free movement of people? Genuine question. It seems to me that this is fundamentally core to the EU. If they give us access to the single market and we don't have to sign up to free movement of people I think lots of EU member states would try to leave to get the same deal, I just don't see that being allowed to happen from an EU perspective. If we sign up to a deal that allows free movement of people don't we have the same deal as now but with no influence at the EU table?

But the EU perspective is now just a viewpoint no longer needed to be adhered to, like any other Country or bloc anywhere in the world we do not have an obligation towards it, its like every view from any other country anywhere, it will be discussed and agreed or not.

I cannot see how we could even consider free movement of people as a prerequisite to some kind of trade deal, can you imagine our smaller economy demanding something similar to say the USA, of course not, ultimately they need to trade with us and us with them, get talking and strike a deal.

PS: If you think lots of member states would also like to limit freedom of movement, then why arent they doing it

 

[Triggaaar]

I think there is a lot at stake with any potential deal we may make.

Agreed.

The last thing Germany will want is a deal that encourages other states to exit the EU with the potential for the EU to essentially collapse in the process.

Well they wouldn't want to encourage others to leave, but I'm not sure it's the last thing they want. I'd think no trade with the UK is close to the last thing they want, I don't think that would be good for Germany or the rest of the UK.

Whatever your views of the EU, such a collapse would very definitely not benefit the ordinary man in this country IMO.

Of course I totally agree. We want all of Europe to be a success.