[Politics] Brexit

[5ways]

http://www.liberation.fr/planete/2016/05/31/le-brexit-un-sacrifice-pour-sauver-l-europe_1456486

Ici, je défends le point de vue de l’Union, et c’est dans son intérêt qu’il faut que vous la quittiez. Si vous restez, vous allez nous pourrir la vie comme jamais auparavant : David Cameron sera le seul leader européen ayant été capable de remporter un référendum sur l’Europe et retrouvera donc un rôle central dans le jeu communautaire. Lui et ses successeurs négocieront alors concession sur concession pour enterrer totalement le rêve fédéraliste des pères de l’Europe et achever la transformation du Vieux Continent en une zone de libre-échange de plus en plus molle.

Please, Britons - leave the EU to save the federalist dream! If you stay you will tip the balance of power to pro-market and pro-trade Northern European countries like the Netherlands and Germany noooooo.

 

[cunning fergus]

Personally I find it particularly galling that such an important matter (our membership of the EU) has been hi-jacked by the immigration issue. Having lost all the other arguments, Brexit campaigners are intent on waging a war of fear, based around their own narrow-minded xenophobia. Newspapers like the Sun, Daily Mail, Express, etc are going to carry on their horrible hate-filled anti-immigrant rhetoric in a desperate attempt to turn us against our fellow citizens. Trump and his bandwagon are doing the same in the US. Let's please stop hating each other, and get back to what being British really means - which is tolerant, welcoming, and open to the outside world.

A country that wants control its internal labour armed is not xenophobic and neither are those who want this control.

Any attempt to shut down such an important aspect of our relationship with the EU on this basis is childish, and indicates you have no understanding of the implications of a free labour market on the UK socially or economically.

For me it is the most important aspect of the debate, and the only justification that anyone can make for it is that is great for employers. For me that is why we have to leave.

France is going through this kind of dialogue now.........it's not looking pretty is it.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Personally I find it particularly galling that such an important matter (our membership of the EU) has been hi-jacked by the immigration issue. Having lost all the other arguments, Brexit campaigners are intent on waging a war of fear, based around their own narrow-minded xenophobia. Newspapers like the Sun, Daily Mail, Express, etc are going to carry on their horrible hate-filled anti-immigrant rhetoric in a desperate attempt to turn us against our fellow citizens. Trump and his bandwagon are doing the same in the US. Let's please stop hating each other, and get back to what being British really means - which is tolerant, welcoming, and open to the outside world.

What a load of bollocks !!!

Firstly the Brexiter's have not lost the economic argument - a vast majority of the remainers points rely of forecasts - something that have been proven to be incredibly incorrect previously. They rarely get a 12 month forecast correct so why all of a sudden can they get a 14 year forecast correct ?

Secondly, it's all about CONTROLLED immigration - something a vast majority of non EU countries have. Strangely they aren't called xenophobic etc - pathetic, just pathetic. No different to me calling you unpatriotic - which I'm sure you aren't ?

 

[beorhthelm]

...
Please, Britons - leave the EU to save the federalist dream! If you stay you will tip the balance of power to pro-market and pro-trade Northern European countries like the Netherlands and Germany noooooo.

its a nice try but those that can see beyond the daily or weekly news cycle see the deeper currents in the EU. the pro-trade movement has always been dominated and overruled by the protectionist movement and there is no reason this is likely to change. if it were, they would have given Cameron some more meat in his "deal", if they wanted less integration they'd have started a proper discussion on how to stop and roll back Lisbon and some other areas. while the people are unhappy and the ongoing crises they are in a holding pattern, ready to go again when the dust settles.

 

[pastafarian]

the federal dream of the fathers of Europe

Please, Britons - leave the EU to save the federalist dream

OK,we can do that
,we dont want to be part of your one way ticket to a federal dream anyway cheerio

 

[drew]

What a load of bollocks !!!

Firstly the Brexiter's have not lost the economic argument - a vast majority of the remainers points rely of forecasts -

Do you genuinely believe that? Firstly, the vast majority of economic forecasts seem to suggest leaving the EU will have a detrimental effect on the economy. Secondly, the economic argument, whether to leave or remain is only ever going to be based on forecasts!!!! Of do you know someone with a time machine who can give us some accurate figures?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Do you genuinely believe that? Firstly, the vast majority of economic forecasts seem to suggest leaving the EU will have a detrimental effect on the economy. Secondly, the economic argument, whether to leave or remain is only ever going to be based on forecasts!!!! Of do you know someone with a time machine who can give us some accurate figures?

I note you only selectively quote me - leaving off the part that puts context around what I say !!!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

So the term Project Fear is unjustified even though Cam and Os have told us if we leave we will all be broke,have WW3,our pensions will die,plus Benedict Cumberbatch won't be able to make any more crap films with EU money.

Cameron and Osborne have said none of the things you list, except possibly the last. I can't vouch for that.

Basically though, it's the old trick of claiming the Remain side have said things they haven't said, and then attacking them for saying it, which they never did.

Thinking up the Project Fear label was a great PR stunt by Boris. If it applies to anything it will certainly apply to the stuff the Leavers and their newspapers will be churning out for the next three weeks.

 

[Maldini]

Err because a lot of UKIP et al have certainly done a lot to show they are, just check what their party members and politicians have said, far too much to put up.

Like Farage I am amazed at how far Trump can get as a super rich privileged person without being found out for what they represent and stand for personally,

UKIP don't represent all of Brexiters.

 

[Maldini]

Cameron and Osborne have said none of the things you list, except possibly the last. I can't vouch for that.

Ever heard of sarcasm ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

I note you only selectively quote me - leaving off the part that puts context around what I say !!!

I wish he had quoted more of your post, particularly... Firstly the Brexiter's have not lost the economic argument - a vast majority of the remainers points rely of forecasts - something that have been proven to be incredibly incorrect previously

...because I couldn't understand it first time round. You might have been saying that the Brexiters have won the economic argument because every less-than-jolly independent forecast has already been proved astonishingly wrong but that's so implausible you couldn't have meant that.

 

[Maldini]

Secondly, the economic argument, whether to leave or remain is only ever going to be based on forecasts!!!!

Which is why they should be ignored.Right?

 

[melias shoes]

We don't have a crystal ball, which is clearly about the only thing that might convince you. We only have practically every economist in the UK and abroad telling us that there are serious and deep consequences of Brexit to the prosperity and economic security of the country.

Brexit. There may be Short term pain.... but it will be Long term GAIN! Out!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Ever heard of sarcasm ?

Every heard of irony?

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

UKIP don't represent all of Brexiters.

No but they represent a big fraction of the group, as much as Cameron, Lucas and Khan do the other side. Thats why I put UKIP et el, as Boris for example has made remarks about Obama. I was just responding to your comments about assumptions, a quick google search shows hundreds of examples of people being racist.

 

[Maldini]

No but they represent a big fraction of the group, .

If that were true UKIP would have walked the last general election.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I wish he had quoted more of your post, particularly... Firstly the Brexiter's have not lost the economic argument - a vast majority of the remainers points rely of forecasts - something that have been proven to be incredibly incorrect previously

...because I couldn't understand it first time round. You might have been saying that the Brexiters have won the economic argument because every less-than-jolly independent forecast has already been proved astonishingly wrong but that's so implausible you couldn't have meant that.

You know perfectly what I meant but just incase :

These so called experts are forecasting 5, 10 even 15 years in advance, now given they wrongly predicted our economic demise for not joining the Euro and can't seem to get even a yearly GDP prediction correct why should we believe them on anything ?

 

[sir albion]

No but they represent a big fraction of the group, as much as Cameron, Lucas and Khan do the other side. Thats why I put UKIP et el, as Boris for example has made remarks about Obama. I was just responding to your comments about assumptions, a quick google search shows hundreds of examples of people being racist.

What was racist about what boris said?
Not even sure people know what's racist or not these days

 

[sir albion]

If that were true UKIP would have walked the last general election.

I'd suspect leave and stay will equate to maybe 25 million votes and half will be brexiters roughly,so a third will not be UKIP.
Anyway this isn't about right or left

 

[Two Professors]

A week away and nothing has changed.The bizarre unemployed number fetishists and worshippers of the beast numbered 4300 are still spouting their Mystic Meg predictions.Only 3 more weeks of their bile against sensible Brexiters and British mainstream newspapers and NSC can be a football forum again and most of them will vanish,hopefully.(5ways seems to be a football supporter).Glad to see the mad one is taking his meds,or getting his nurse to write for him.