[Politics] Brexit

[The Rivet]

Access to the single market means you play by Brussels rules. We want access it comes at a cost, like it does for Norway or Switzerland. This includes free movement, along with farming regulation, environmental regulation etc.

I'd love to play you at poker.

 

[Trufflehound]

True, but I think that is a UK exemption under review (till the referendum is complete no doubt) and not the case in the wider EU?

In any event the key question is; are all the services and materials required to get the food from the farm to the shop exempt from EU VAT?

If the answer is no, prices are higher due to the EU........FACT.

Under the rules each country is allowed to designate two lower rates of VAT below top rate for special things such as food, the lowest of which is suppposed to be 5%, so that may be the exemption you speak of that's under review (note, in your words, "under review". "Under review" does not automatically mean "raised" - just ask the millions of employees whose salaries have come "under review".)

Moreover, the same EU rule only stipulates that the top rate of VAT must be "at least 15%", and that Member States are free to set their own rates within these simple guidelines (which were set in an attempt to level the playing field fairly across Europe). In other words, the UK government is perfectly at liberty now, with no pressure at all from Brussels, to reduce the top rate on all those other goods and services you speak of from 20% to 15%. If it wanted to. The fact it hasn't is the UK government not giving not giving a shit, not the EC.

And all this is a UK national VAT, with the money going to the UK national government. Despite your repeated attempts to imply there is some kind of devious "EU VAT" levied being directly by Brussels, I am yet to find any evidence of such. If it exists I would be interested to read about it. Please can you provide me with some links. Thanks.

List of VAT rates in EU countries: http://www.vatlive.com/vat-rates/eu...://www.google.nl&lastReferrer=www.vatlive.com

 

[Maldini]

This thread seems to be dominated by talk of economics.Let's talk about 333.000 net migration.Let's talk about the 123.000 Brits who moved abroad so in fact we have had at least 456.000 migrants move here in the last year and that doesn't even include all of the illegals.

Let's talk about schools,hospitals,housing and how we are going to cope.Do we have enough police.Do we have enough roads,infrastructure.Can London for example cope seeing as that's where so many migrants are going.Is it right that parts of London and other parts of the UK are dominated by migrants.

Let's talk about what's important and not be selfish and talk about the pounds in our pocket like some seem to be obsessed by.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Access to the single market means you play by Brussels rules. We want access it comes at a cost, like it does for Norway or Switzerland. This includes free movement, along with farming regulation, environmental regulation etc.

Rubbish. So you are suggesting that the EU will only trade with countries that abide by its rules. That's hilarious.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[pastafarian]

The refugee crisis has nothing to do with EU membership. Refugees admitted to Germany have no right to live in the UK. The UK is not in the Schengen passport-free travel agreement so there are border checks on migrants.

It has everything to do with EU membership,simply because you dont want it to is not a good enough reason for trying to dismiss the connection.

Are you not aware those granted refugee status dont have to remain refugees forever,they can after time apply to become EU citizens.It may be years before some can apply but time is not the issue here The EU itself predicted there could be over 3 million trying to gain access to the EU areas by the end of 2017.
Factor in after this family members also who are permitted to join and gain the same status,you suddenly have a very significant number.
Since we dont control our borders with EU citizens you would be foolish not to think ahead and consider the implications of even more arriving on our shores in the future via this migration method.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Oh, if only this was the case. I fear that the sheep will vote to remain, simply because they're scared of change and think that that nice Mr. Cameron, who they voted for (while telling the pollsters they didn't) must be right, because he's the PM after all. Sad.

And the winner of the Smug Patroniser of the Day is Gt49er!

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Rubbish. So you are suggesting that the EU will only trade with countries that abide by its rules. That's hilarious.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

It might have been hilarious if that had been what he said. There is a difference between 'trade', which EU members do with the world, and access to the single market, which is what the poster was talking about. It's a big difference.

 

[5ways]

Rubbish. So you are suggesting that the EU will only trade with countries that abide by its rules. That's hilarious.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

We are physically part of the continent of Europe, half our exports go to the EU. It is in our interest to retain unfettered access to the European single market. In order to achieve this the EU will demand that we use it's rulebook, this means - free movement, regulation. We do not need to abide by the rules if we use the WTO model. The problem is the alternative models are very damaging to the UK.

1) The Norway option

What is it: Britain would remain part of the European Economic Area, like Norway, with access to the single market but still have to accept certain EU rules like free movement and directives agreed in Brussels.

GDP: 3.8% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £2,600
Annual lost tax revenues: £20bn

2) The Canada option

What is it: Britain would sign a bilateral free trade agreement with the EU, like the one Canada has negotiated – an example cited by Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, as a possible option.

GDP: 6.2% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £4,300
Annual lost tax revenue: £36bn

3) The World Trade Organisation option

What is it: Britain would not sign a standalone trade deal with the EU but instead rely on tariff levels set by the World Trade Organistion.

GDP: 7.5% lower (than if UK stayed in EU).
Annual cost per household: £5,200
Annual lost tax revenue: £45bn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-every-family-4300-a-year-treasury-forecasts/

 

[5ways]

It has everything to do with EU membership,simply because you dont want it to is not a good enough reason for trying to dismiss the connection.

Are you not aware those granted refugee status dont have to remain refugees forever,they can after time apply to become EU citizens.It may be years before some can apply but time is not the issue here The EU itself predicted there could be over 3 million trying to gain access to the EU areas by the end of 2017.
Factor in after this family members also who are permitted to join and gain the same status,you suddenly have a very significant number.
Since we dont control our borders with EU citizens you would be foolish not to think ahead and consider the implications of even more arriving on our shores in the future via this migration method.

A very small amount of refugees could end up here. But if you spend 5 years in Italy or Sweden, or 8 in Germany would you bother to learn their language take their citizenship tests just so you can hop over to the UK?

http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog...l-refugees-acquire-full-free-movement-rights/

I'm not saying some won't but it is a long process to gaining citizenship even if you are granted full asylum.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Sadly I think you are right.The gutless half of this country who have no confidence in the UK and are way to scared to go it alone will win I fear.If we can get up to a 6/7 point lead up to June 23rd then we may have a chance.I believe the last week leading to the vote will see the big selling papers who are on the leave side really going for it with big headlines so maybe all will not be lost.

I agree with the second part of your post - the Sun, Mail and Express will all be going for it and I think you could win. The first half is just routine slagging off, although to show contempt for about 20 million Britons is unusual even by Brexiter standards.

 

[GT49er]

Best of both worlds Or as Cameron put it 'special status'.

Sadly, I think you really believe Cameron. Still, people believed Neville Chamberlain too.

 

[GT49er]

And the winner of the Smug Patroniser of the Day is Gt49er!

.....and the winner of the most stupidly irrelevant post of the day is ... ... ...

 

[Lincoln Imp]

.....and the winner of the most stupidly irrelevant post of the day is ... ... ...

Oh I don't know... If the holders of one opinion call those who disagree with them sad and scared sheep who voted for Mr Cameron then it must say SOMETHING about how they view the debate surely? And that's relevant.

 

[Maldini]

I agree with the second part of your post - the Sun, Mail and Express will all be going for it and I think you could win. The first half is just routine slagging off, although to show contempt for about 20 million Britons is unusual even by Brexiter standards.

Cameron and Osborne have been showing contempt for the entire population of the UK with Project Fear since campaigning began so I guess I'm in good company.

I'll assume if I went through all of your post's I will find nothing but civility towards Brexiter's.

 

[pastafarian]

A very small amount of refugees could end up here. But if you spend 5 years in Italy or Sweden, or 8 in Germany would you bother to learn their language take their citizenship tests just so you can hop over to the UK?

an odd conclusion
many EU citizens have lived for decades in their own country only to move up sticks to somewhere else.
5 years is much less of an emotional tie to one place after someone has gained the EU passport.

The point still stands,your idea that the migration crisis is nothing to do with EU membership is false.They are linked and as we dont control our borders with the EU we would continue to have no control of EU numbers

 

[Maldini]

Oh I don't know... If the holders of one opinion call those who disagree with them sad and scared sheep who voted for Mr Cameron then it must say SOMETHING about how they view the debate surely? And that's relevant.

What's your opinion on last weeks net migration figures 330.000 & 123.000 Brits who moved abroad and have been replaced by migrants plus the illegal migrants who have made it here?

 

[pastafarian]

if its possible to negotiate 'special status' with Europe,as some like to claim Cameron has achieved.
it stands to reason all trade options are on the table with the EU post brexit and not simply pick only one of model 1,2 or 3. like Osborne said

Its a shame the EU has deliberately stopped talks with Switzerland about free movement until after our referendum.
The Swiss will stop free movement of EU nationals and will implement quotas by feb next year.

If their talks had concluded The Brit electorate would have had a clear indication if Switzerland would have gained its own "special status" regards free movement or be sent to the naughty corner with no supper.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

The Leave campaign says that if Britain votes to come out of the EU the government should do the following by 2020:

End the automatic right of all EU citizens to come to live and work in the UK

Those seeking entry for work or study should be admitted on the basis of their skills without discrimination on the ground of nationality

To gain the right to work, economic migrants will have to be suitable for the job in question

For relevant jobs, the UK will be able to ensure that all those who come have the ability to speak good English

EU citizens already lawfully resident in the UK would not be affected as they will be given indefinite leave to remain, and neither will Irish citizens.

The 1972 European Communities Act could also be amended to make it easier to remove criminals and other people whose presence in the UK is "not conducive to the public good".

All sounds eminently fair and sensible.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I want to vote out but I'm worried our government would scrap all our rights and screw the poor into oblivion.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Bold Seagull]

Will we get a referendum on renewing Trident at £200bn?

Seems a more important decision to me in all honesty. Not sure why EU membership is a public decision whereas so many decisions are not. Could have probably saved the doctors striking too if we could have all told the Hunt what he needed to do. As Richard Dawkins was quoted the other day “It is an outrage that people as ignorant as me are being asked to vote. This is a complicated matter.”.