[Politics] Brexit

[Hampster Gull]

Jutland. Poignant. Timely reminder.

 

[5ways]

i'm reminded to day of the contradictions behind the remain campaign championing the case to protect The City and finance industry. it wasnt long ago they were arguing over regulations from bestowed from the EU to restrict various areas of trading and finance, and how many businesses are setup in the UK rather than Frankfurt or Paris precisely because we have a lighter regulation than they do, which they seek to adress through imposing their regulation upon us. tens of thousands of the jobs the remainers seek to protect by staying in will be underthreat if we stay in.

one particularly onerous set of of regulations still being considered on the quiet is the financial transaction tariff, or robin hood tax as people who think its a good idea like to call it, which will increase the cost of all financial products including your mortgage, loans, pension, currency exchange, insurance, and banking. its been viewed as counter productive by an EU report, it was viewed as a potential disaster for the City by PwC (the same PwC saying how bad the economy will be if we leave EU), but it hasn't gone away and is scheduled for further discussion this summer having been postponed until after some awkward referendum is over. there's few things postponed like that, its as if they are concerned it might sway the vote... a vote to remain is for a different set of changes

Cameron's deal secured an opt-out of the uniform EU banking rules. Also being in the EU allows us to write the banking rules rather than simply be subject to them.

 

[5ways]

You seem to be very hung up on prosperity, profit and economic security, which COULD be the case under Brexit.
It has also been stated by other "economists" and indeed the top man of the Swiss that we would have a tough couple of years but would benefit in the long term with Brexit.
This brings me back to my first point re your prosperity, profit and economic security, not any mention of our sovereignty our culture our traditions,laws etc...... you just seem to see the pound signs and to hell with other matters that are important, reasons why many favour Brexit.

I don't take the loss of sovereignty lightly but in reality by leaving we lose sovereignty because we become rule takers rather than rule makers. We will still have to swallow Brussels regulation if we want access to the single market. Like has been said before having a hand on the tiller gives you greater control than casting yourself out. Sovereignty is relative and we are less sovereign if we are subject to EU rules but have zero recourse to change them.

 

[GT49er]

Cameron's deal secured an opt-out of the uniform EU banking rules. Also being in the EU allows us to write the banking rules rather than simply be subject to them.

Cameron's deal isn't worth the paper it's written on - oh hang on, it hasn't been written on paper and signed at all. The EU can still change it later if we are daft enough to surrender our independence on 23rd.June.

Besides, why would we want to write the banking rules if we can opt out of them anyway?

 

[beorhthelm]

Cameron's deal secured an opt-out of the uniform EU banking rules.

really? you should tell Cameron because even he hasnt made this claim. there was no opt out, there was a promise that new regulations around the Eurozone (and thats a specifc point of context) can be "reveiwed". no opt out, just a delaying tactic, and essentially no new power at that just a statement of fact. being in the EU means discussing the matter then deciding they are going ahead anyway.

 

[Soulman]

Cameron's deal isn't worth the paper it's written on - oh hang on, it hasn't been written on paper and signed at all. The EU can still change it later if we are daft enough to surrender our independence on 23rd.June.

Besides, why would we want to write the banking rules if we can opt out of them anyway?

Exactly, already stated that the "deals" were not signed, will never be signed if we remain. Meanwhile Frau Merkel popped out to the local chippie and probably used the "deal" papers to wrap up her chips and Bratwurst in.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Jutland. Poignant. Timely reminder.

Wise words ... you can never trust the Germans.

 

[Maldini]

Always happy to listen to what the BoE has to say. This is what they said about Brexit:


The Bank warned a vote to leave the EU could:

Push the pound lower, “perhaps sharply”.
Prompt households and businesses to delay spending.
Increase unemployment.
Hit economic growth.
Stoke inflation.

The 2008 crash proved being in the EU does not make us immune to economic hardship.Indeed some countries are struggling worse than ever before.Greece,Italy,Spain to name a few.As for this idea the pound would go down if we left the EU,it went down to 1.35 against the dollar in 2008 and I believe almost parity with the Euro.

 

[Maldini]

These are fair questions. I don't know what the ceiling is but I actually think we've hit it. The big waves of migration happened when Eastern bloc countries first joined the EU. Those who wanted to move did, and now it fluctuates based on opportunities and economic strength. This seems okay to me.

The idea of total and relative democracy is intruging but of course we are not a 'total democracy' anyway, we do not vote on every issue. We elect people to do this for us. We do this in Westminster and the EU. It could be more democratic and more transparent yes, but this also requires engaging with European institutions - something few have bothered with. The more people care the more democratic it will become. Hopefully this referendum will energise people to think about the EU parliament more after the remain vote.

Sovereignty is also relative. Sovereignty is your ability to act on your own volition. What determines this ultimately is how strong you are. Greece is less sovereign than Germany because Germany is much stronger. Greece is still sovereign but its ability to do as it pleases is strongly curtailed. Our ability to do as we please if we left would be diminished because we would have to accept the rules rather than write them, we would be subject to nearly all EU law but have no recourse to amend or change this law. We would therefore be less sovereign outside of the EU.

I have a different opinion than you do on democracy and sovereignty however the idea that we've hit the ceiling on immigration is truly crazy.Even Cameron knows to get down to anywhere near his target of 100K net migration per year he is going to have to go some.

 

[Maldini]

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/polls-give-leave-campaign-four-point-lead-over-remain-11364065457658

Thank God British people are starting to see sense.I still have hope for the remain campaigners on here to finally wake up.

 

[GT49er]

http://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/polls-give-leave-campaign-four-point-lead-over-remain-11364065457658

Thank God British people are starting to see sense.I still have hope for the remain campaigners on here to finally wake up.

Oh, if only this was the case. I fear that the sheep will vote to remain, simply because they're scared of change and think that that nice Mr. Cameron, who they voted for (while telling the pollsters they didn't) must be right, because he's the PM after all. Sad.

 

[Maldini]

Oh, if only this was the case. I fear that the sheep will vote to remain, simply because they're scared of change and think that that nice Mr. Cameron, who they voted for (while telling the pollsters they didn't) must be right, because he's the PM after all. Sad.

Sadly I think you are right.The gutless half of this country who have no confidence in the UK and are way to scared to go it alone will win I fear.If we can get up to a 6/7 point lead up to June 23rd then we may have a chance.I believe the last week leading to the vote will see the big selling papers who are on the leave side really going for it with big headlines so maybe all will not be lost.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Wise words ... you can never trust the Germans.

Yes, well I also wondered how that sentence was supposed to be reassuring.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

we would be subject to nearly all EU law but have no recourse to amend or change this law. We would therefore be less sovereign outside of the EU.

Just what are you basing this staggering claim on?

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[The Rivet]

Jutland. Poignant. Timely reminder.

Yes....a view of horror.

 

[5ways]

Just what are you basing this staggering claim on?

Sent from the boot of Lingard

Access to the single market means you play by Brussels rules. We want access it comes at a cost, like it does for Norway or Switzerland. This includes free movement, along with farming regulation, environmental regulation etc.

 

[5ways]

Cameron's deal isn't worth the paper it's written on - oh hang on, it hasn't been written on paper and signed at all. The EU can still change it later if we are daft enough to surrender our independence on 23rd.June.

Besides, why would we want to write the banking rules if we can opt out of them anyway?

Best of both worlds Or as Cameron put it 'special status'.

 

[The Rivet]

Cameron's deal secured an opt-out of the uniform EU banking rules. Also being in the EU allows us to write the banking rules rather than simply be subject to them.

Opt out: Can still be over-ruled down the line (no fixed point of unalterable law) by the rest of the EU. If you think otherwise fine, if we vote 'In' we'll find out! Being in the EU doesn't allow us to write the rules, just debate what they could be. Rarely are our wishes/needs listened to now. How would that change?

 

[The Rivet]

I don't take the loss of sovereignty lightly but in reality by leaving we lose sovereignty because we become rule takers rather than rule makers. We will still have to swallow Brussels regulation if we want access to the single market. Like has been said before having a hand on the tiller gives you greater control than casting yourself out. Sovereignty is relative and we are less sovereign if we are subject to EU rules but have zero recourse to change them.

What?!

 

[The Rivet]

Sadly I think you are right.The gutless half of this country who have no confidence in the UK and are way to scared to go it alone will win I fear.If we can get up to a 6/7 point lead up to June 23rd then we may have a chance.I believe the last week leading to the vote will see the big selling papers who are on the leave side really going for it with big headlines so maybe all will not be lost.

Latest polls say the Brexit campaign is digging away at them and may even be leading! The argument is moving away from the 'inners' economy to the 'outers' immigration worries. The chanel IS the new Med. The fight is on.