Bnp win Euro seat.

[Gwylan]

I quite agree, the BNP have to be confronted with constructive policy debate, not insults. Their analysis of the ills of British working class is based on the mistaken premise that is all the fault of "foreigners" and whilst they perpetuate this myth the solutions to those problems will elude them.

I suspect though that the main parties will court the disaffected BNP vote by pandering to their prejudices rather than seriously tackling urban poverty, such is the intellectual vacuum at the heart of the "labour" and tory parties.

That's spot on.

The BNP reinforces and plays on people's prejudices. It offers little in the way of serious analysis or solutions.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Black people cannot become a member of the BNP.

Anyone who thinks that is ok is a twat.
End of.

 

[Milton Keynes Seagull]

good to see the knuckle scrapers are applying their genius arguements today.

anyone who voted BNP is an ignorant piece of shit imho.

Would "knuckle scrapers" apply to those who can't spell arguments correctly. It can't apply to Nick Griffin whatever you think of his politics, the man has a Cambridge degree and the other BNP MEP is a retired university lecturer.

 

[clapham_gull]

Would "knuckle scrapers" apply to those who can't spell arguments correctly. It can't apply to Nick Griffin whatever you think of his politics, the man has a Cambridge degree and the other BNP MEP is a retired university lecturer.

Perhaps you'd like to enlighten us about his background then ?

I think you're confusing the interlect of the people who vote for them against the interlect of the people running the party.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

No-one voted for Mosley because the British Union of Fascists never stood in a general election. It stood in the London County Council election but failed to win a single seat.

I'm not sure that I wholly go along with this idea that people who vote BNP aren't racists but feel disenfranchised from the political system. There were plenty of other parties to vote for if people wanted to make a protest vote (or even spoil a ballot) - so why pick a racist party?

I'm not saying that their voters are'nt racist, they probably are in fact, what I'm saying is that politicians are doing themselves no favours by attempting to ignore the BNP rather than taking them on properly and dismantling their arguments. "La la la I'm not listening" has opened the door for the BNP and as long as wooly minded Liberals and Brighton louche attitudes persist they will continue to spread their venom unchecked.

If you lived in an area where race,religion and migration directly impacted on your life every single day and led to you feeling increasingly ignored and mistreated perhaps you would have a different view of what is happening in the North.

And who else would you suggest as a mouthpiece for them other than the BNP?

 

[KZNSeagull]

I'm not sure that I wholly go along with this idea that people who vote BNP aren't racists but feel disenfranchised from the political system. There were plenty of other parties to vote for if people wanted to make a protest vote (or even spoil a ballot) - so why pick a racist party?

I think that is correct. The BNP's standing in the polls has been raised because so many people did not bother to vote at all, which is the real issue. If turnout had been higher, the BNP's percentage of the vote would have decreased - assuming of course that those who wanted to vote for the BNP actually did vote.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I think that is correct. The BNP's standing in the polls has been raised because so many people did not bother to vote at all, which is the real issue. If turnout had been higher, the BNP's percentage of the vote would have decreased - assuming of course that those who wanted to vote for the BNP actually did vote.

Yes and no, in Burnley less people voted BNP than did so in 2005 but the Labour vote collapsed so their share increased as a consequence. There were significant swings to them elsewhere though even if they got no seats. Where I am in Essex, for example,the BNP did very well and having spoken to the local types with their cheerful cockney racism and intolerance I can see why.

 

[Gwylan]

I'm not saying that their voters are'nt racist, they probably are in fact, what I'm saying is that politicians are doing themselves no favours by attempting to ignore the BNP rather than taking them on properly and dismantling their arguments.

Quite. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear, I totally agree that the time is right to try to dismantle the BNP's arguments but what I was saying that it's no good saying that the supporters weren't racist or at least displayed some signs of prejudice.

If you lived in an area where race,religion and migration directly impacted on your life every single day and led to you feeling increasingly ignored and mistreated perhaps you would have a different view of what is happening in the North.

Well, I lived in Bradford for three years and lived in Balham/Tooting for 18 years so I've got plenty of experience of living in areas of high immigration. And no, it didn't lead me to take the same view as that of the average BNP supporter.

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Well, I lived in Bradford for three years and lived in Balham/Tooting for 18 years so I've got plenty of experience of living in areas of high immigration. And no, it didn't lead me to have a different view from that of the average BNP supporter.

Did'nt it?

 

[Brovion]

...
I'm not sure that I wholly go along with this idea that people who vote BNP aren't racists but feel disenfranchised from the political system. There were plenty of other parties to vote for if people wanted to make a protest vote (or even spoil a ballot) - so why pick a racist party?

I would disagree, I don't think there are any other parties for disillusioned white working class people. And they don't publish the number of spoiled ballot papers so if you've taken the trouble to go to the polling station you might as well have your vote counted.

I really do think that not everyone who voted for the BNP is a knuckle-dragging, neo-Nazi, 'Hitler-was-right', SS-loving pea-brained scumbag. Yes undoubtedly there are some but I'm equally sure that some people held their noses and ticked the BNP box because, race issues asside, it's the nearest party to their own views. To continue to dismiss them all as racist halfwits is to continue to sweep the problem under the carpet.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The BNP's standing in the polls has been raised because so many people did not bother to vote at all, which is the real issue. If turnout had been higher, the BNP's percentage of the vote would have decreased - assuming of course that those who wanted to vote for the BNP actually did vote.

I can't find the article I read earlier on the BBC but it stated that turnout was only down 4% on the previous Euro election. I'm not sure the rise of the BNP can be put down to voters not voting ( assuming you can be a non-voting voter ). I think the increase in BNP votes is more likely down to the complete refusal of the main parties to tackle the BNP head on in intelligent debate. The BNP needs exposing with clear facts, arguement and challenges NOT calling the people who voted BNP racist, scum or twats. All that does is encourage them to be even more bloody minded and continue to vote in that way.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

ticked the BNP box because, race issues asside, it's the nearest party to their own views.

there is not much left to the BNP - race issues aside is there ?

 

[Gwylan]

Did'nt it?

Quite right. I meant the same view.

I'm signing up for my swastika flag now...

 

[Acker79]

I think there needs to be clarification on'immigrants' in this debate. Brighton has immigrants. 50% of the workforce at my company is made up of immigrants, they work hard, they work as much as they can and they don't get any state handouts. There are members of our native staff that limit their hours so they can still claim certain benefits and tax reliefs, and it is generally the native people who have sickies on particularly sunny days.

I'm surrounded by immigrants, and think they are a great addition to our community.

Perhaps, at least partially, it isn't so much the immigrants as it is the area they go to?

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

I would disagree, I don't think there are any other parties for disillusioned white working class people. And they don't publish the number of spoiled ballot papers so if you've taken the trouble to go to the polling station you might as well have your vote counted.

I really do think that not everyone who voted for the BNP is a knuckle-dragging, neo-Nazi, 'Hitler-was-right', SS-loving pea-brained scumbag. Yes undoubtedly there are some but I'm equally sure that some people held their noses and ticked the BNP box because, race issues asside, it's the nearest party to their own views. To continue to dismiss them all as racist halfwits is to continue to sweep the problem under the carpet.

Spot on. I can imagine that there were many who voted who did so out of desperation that their concerns are not being listened to. I was in Burnley recently on business and just about every person I spoke to in the pub and in the hotel I was staying in was saying that there is a massive problem between the whites and the asians in particular (I hardly saw a black person btw..in fact I did'nt see one at all) and the issue did not seem to be race but rather culture with the strong family,business and isolationist tendencies of the mainly Pakistani migrant community being at odds with the attitudes and expectations of the local white working class types.

One bloke was saying that after primary school the asian girls are kept away from the white boys and the asian boys treat the white girls as sluts to be used and then dumped when they've spread their wild oats and want to marry a girl from the old country which is causing massive problems with the youth and with no mixing of the races on religious grounds the future looks pretty bleak from a harmony point of view down the line.

If you removed Islam from the mix I believe this problem would not exist, but voting BNP will hardly improve the situation.

 

[KZNSeagull]

I can't find the article I read earlier on the BBC but it stated that turnout was only down 4% on the previous Euro election. I'm not sure the rise of the BNP can be put down to voters not voting ( assuming you can be a non-voting voter ). I think the increase in BNP votes is more likely down to the complete refusal of the main parties to tackle the BNP head on in intelligent debate. The BNP needs exposing with clear facts, arguement and challenges NOT calling the people who voted BNP racist, scum or twats. All that does is encourage them to be even more bloody minded and continue to vote in that way.

I hear what you are saying and I dont disagree on the main parties tackling the issues, but the point I am trying to make is that because the turnout in most elections is so low, non-mainstream parties will always prosper. What I mean by that is that your average UK voter can be rather apathetic and/or potentially feel disenfranchised, hence the reason they dont bother to vote, but if a voter has strong views, particularly for a party like the BNP, they will always vote.

People cannot really complain that the BNP has got 2 seats if over half of the electorate could not be bothered to get off their arses and vote.

I know that this is a rather simplistic view, but I think the theory is sound!!

 

[beorhthelm]

I can't find the article I read earlier on the BBC but it stated that turnout was only down 4% on the previous Euro election. I'm not sure the rise of the BNP can be put down to voters not voting ( assuming you can be a non-voting voter ).

the actual numbers and percentage of the BNP vote is down, its just that Labour vote didnt turn out so BNP picked up some seats almost by default. I think some voted BNP as the ultimate protest vote, but you cant tell really from the numbers (and if they did then the BNP failed to get out their established vote)

agree with KZNseagull above, its partially down to everyone else not caring.

but thats the wonder that is proportional representation. look forward to similar situations with Westminster parliament if the Liberals get their way.

 

[Tooting Gull]

The BNP are simply benefiting from the crassness of the other choices. If I was a labour/conservative politician this morning, I'd be having a serious look in the mirror and asking myself what in god's name are we doing, that the BNP is considered a better option by some/any people in this country.

It's a ludicrous state of affairs where the other parties are so paralysed by fear of being seen to do the wrong thing they won't even have a proper discussion about immigration policy. That leaves a vacuum which the racists are only too happy to fill.

It's really simple. You either let everyone in, all the time - or you have a policy. And if you articulate a clear policy that lets in the people we need economically, meets EU law, and caters for deserving asylum cases, you cut the legs from under the BNP. Why won't Labour do this?

 

[KZNSeagull]

The BNP are simply benefiting from the crassness of the other choices. If I was a labour/conservative politician this morning, I'd be having a serious look in the mirror this morning and asking myself what in god's name are we doing, that the BNP is considered a better option by some/any people in this country.

It's a ludicrous state of affairs where the other parties are so paralysed by fear of being seen to do the wrong thing they won't even have a proper discussion about immigration policy. That leaves a vacuum which the racists are only too happy to fill.

It's really simple. You either let everyone in, all the time - or you have a policy. And if you articulate a clear policy that lets in the people we need economically, meets EU law, and caters for deserving asylum cases, you cut the legs from under the BNP. Why won't Labour do this?

I think you have answered your own question. All the main parties seem to be so scared of upsetting people that they cannot have a serious debate on anything.

How many times has GB said "I am going to get on with the job" in the last few days - 50, 100? Well get on with it then - what is he actually doing at the moment?

Love her or hate her, the only leader in recent times who had the courage to stand up for her views and carry them out, no matter what public opinion thought, was Mrs Thatcher. IMO the UK desparately needs someone like this at the moment - not necessarily her politics - but someone to stand up and say "I dont care who I upset, this is what I believe is right for the country and this is what I am going to do". At least then the electorate might get off their bums to vote!!

 

[Questions]

Seeing the percentage of the vote he got must mean that plenty in his area agrees with his policies. I dont think I would ever vote BNP but then I dont live in a diverse and multi-cultural society with all its wonderful little traits like ''adolescant sexual grooming, high crime and ethnic colonisation. ''

Is any of that true ? It only needs some of it to appear so before the dis-affected whites from an area look to the BNP. Whatever happened to the old Tories who welcomed that lot ?