Australians & Muslims

[London Irish]

this is what scares the crap out of me when Iran is actively refining uranium for an atomic bomb.

Are your scared that the dictatorship in Muslim Pakistan, a country penetrated top to bottom with Al Qaeda sympathisers, has nuclear weapons now?

 

[London Irish]

When I came back to England recently with my Malasyian fiancee, we got all sorts of weird & strange looks from people in Brighton. In the UK racism is more underground than Australia, but it's just as rampant I'm afraid

I would agree with that, particularly in those parts of Britain that have had little immigrant settlement.

But I think the point stands that of all countries in the world, we have little to learn from Australia's example, which runs the gamut from disappointing to shameful in its treatment of minorities.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I would agree with that, particularly in those parts of Britain that have had little immigrant settlement.

But I think the point stands that of all countries in the world, we have little to learn from Australia's example, which runs the gamut from disappointing to shameful in its treatment of minor
ities.

And what shameful treatment would that be?

If you had a clue about australia which you obviously dont,. you would know most of the ethnic tensions are between groups who have come here and havent left behind their dumb euro hatreds like the croats/serbs, greeks, macos, etc.

 

[The Clown of Pevensey Bay]

* australia has no far right political parties like england does.

Never heard of Pauline Hanson and One Nation, Tyrone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2010782.stm

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Never heard of Pauline Hanson and One Nation, Tyrone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_Hanson

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2010782.stm

Yeah she was a laugh.

That party is long dead and buried.

Nothing at all like a National Front, no violent thugs backing it, she got votes from the grey rinse set in queensland.

Extreme Right Politics just don't work in Australia.

But it's been around in England for along time.

 

[tedebear]

To sum it up if Australian's are racist it can be put down to their genes because they are descended from a racist lot of so and sos.

How does the old saying go...the apple never falls far from the tree.

An an Australian I find your point of view somewhat objectionable...Its the usual pig headed way of stating your own opinion and making it sound factual - which the majority of the rest of the world hates us for!! I think your arrogance will mean your argument is never heard. However valid or not it is.

Sorry - just my opinion but you and your like make us sound really stuck up.

PS If you told my parents or myself we were similar to the English - we'd be really really put out. I'm not English - I bear no resemblence except for my skin colour, I am Australian in every way.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Good answer, Dave.

Just plain classy.

you started it

 

[London Irish]

And what shameful treatment would that be?

If you had a clue about australia which you obviously dont,. you would know most of the ethnic tensions are between groups who have come here and havent left behind their dumb euro hatreds like the croats/serbs, greeks, macos, etc.

The shameful I was referring to was the aboriginals.

I understand the points you are making about colonial legacy though. But that argument only goes so far, Australians have to take responsibility for how much Howard is pandering to the Pauline Hanson mob, in the same way Thatcher 20 years ago pandered to the far right with her "swamping" speech. Has Hanson only disappeared because her bile has influenced mainstream politicians, so there is no need for her any more? Australians have to take responsibility in how much racist poison is being spat out into their culture by the right-wing radio shock jocks.

I hear different things about how serious the tensions are between the British/Irish descendants and what it is sometimes referred to as the "wogs", the Mediterranean descendants. If you say there are little, then that's a credible viewpoint but some would disagree.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

John Howard.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I would agree with that, particularly in those parts of Britain that have had little immigrant settlement.

But I think the point stands that of all countries in the world, we have little to learn from Australia's example, which runs the gamut from disappointing to shameful in its treatment of minorities.

That's probably right. I just object to people on the other side of the world claiming Australia is the most racist place in the world. Australians speak their mind more than Brits, but are no more racist than people in Britain.

And I feel far safer wandering the streets of Sydney in a mixed-race relationship than I do in anywhere in Britain I'm afraid

 

[Mr Burns]

And I feel far safer wandering the streets of Sydney in a mixed-race relationship than I do in anywhere in Britain I'm afraid

I can definately agree on that one. Along with New Zealand, Australia and parts of Asia they feel some of the safest places around. Obviously there's the odd nastiness going on, but if I had to walk down a dark street late at night on me own, I would definately prefer to be in Australia, rather than England or America. (Not that it bothers me walking down a street lkate at night, because I'm a hard **** ). That said, I shit myself everywhere I went on my own in America, day or night. And South Africa, bloody hell don't start me on South Africa. How the f*** they've got the World Cup is a total mystery.

 

[Soton Seagull]

I can't claim to be an expert on Australian society en masse, but having been here for nearly a year and travelled around many parts you do pick up on certain things.

There ceratinly seems to be a major dislike between mainstream Australian society and the Aboriginies, particuarly in the Northern Territorries. Many a time I've heard the Aborignies referred to as savages, lazy drunks and 'boongs' (apparently the noise made when they are hit by your 4x4 vehicle).

From what I can ascertain it is a very complicated situation. The indiginous population were treated remarkably badly by the early setllers and to a lessening degree ever since. When in the N Territories I was informed by a tour guide that Aboriginies were classed as part of the Flora & Fauna of Oz until the early 70s, literally classing them as less than human until that time.

The introduction of alcohol to a people that had no genetic ability to handle it has been disatrous, pretty much creating instant alcolholics and all the misery that goes with it. One only has to go to Alice Springs or Tennant Creek to experience the worst signs of Aboriginal life, drunk, abusive fighting dirty piss stained individuals, one of which demanded I gave him back his land. Being particuarly short on land personally, and fairly convinced I hadn't stolen his, I had to decline his request. Many of these people live off the state and still demand reparations for acts that happened several generations ago. One can make a fair argument that such people should pull their socks up and sort themselves out. Sadly this is the impression of Aboriginies that many in Australia take as the majority behavior.

Travel further up north and meet aboriginies in the Kakadu area and you will meet a fascinating people with a rich culture/history, some amazing (if a little strange) stories and a very friendly manner. There are also many integrated aboriginies working throughout the country, reatining their identity, but embracing many western values (but not all the bad ones!).

As such (as in most cases) the situation is not clear cut (would have said not black and white, but in miscontext someone would have got offended!). The problem will go on for the forseeable future and there seems no clear solution. I could go in to much more detail, but that all seems to cover the basics.

As a whole I have found Oz to be more openly rascist, and homophobic & sexist in attitude. Most mainland European groups are referred to as 'wogs' in conversation. That said, the word 'openly' is key. The UK is much more of the 'I'm not rascist but...' scenarios.

I've no problem with the idea of saying to people who have chosen to live somewhere should abide by the law or go back from whence they came. This should not be used as a tool to have a go at everyone who 'looks' like they are foreign. In many cases, such as July 7 bombings, it is the homegrown that are the peratrators. Society needs to deal with young people who feel isolated and are struggling to find an identity, as this is more of an issue than some mouthy religous idiots saying we should all live a certain way.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

As a whole I have found Oz to be more openly rascist, and homophobic & sexist in attitude. Most mainland European groups are referred to as 'wogs' in conversation. That said, the word 'openly' is key. The UK is much more of the 'I'm not rascist but...' scenarios.

Agree with most of what you say, but I have to bring you up on a couple of points here. Australians don't see words such as "paki" and "wog" as racist words - that's why they're used in normal conversation. In fact, Richie Benaud used to be told by the BBC not to use the word "paki" on TV. Over here he does all the time. Words like these are considered on a par as saying "Pommie" when talking about the English... something I don't take offence at.

I also would argue that Australia is definitely less homophobic than Britian. Maybe you're comparing the Northern terrotories with the English South Coast - which is probably like comparing Burnley with Sydney. Remember that Sydney is the gay capital of the world and proud of it. Go up to Northern towns like Burnley and you'll see a different attitude to gays compared to the South of England.

 

[tedebear]

Originally posted by Soton Seagull As a whole I have found Oz to be more openly rascist, and homophobic & sexist in attitude. Most mainland European groups are referred to as 'wogs' in conversation. That said, the word 'openly' is key. The UK is much more of the 'I'm not rascist but...' scenarios. [/B]

I'm not sure as tourists that you can really comment on the sentiment of a nation. As Stumpy has said - certain words which as an Englishman you feel are racist, I don't find racist. Its only after living here in England that I have dropped certain words out of my vocabulary, Paki being one of them. They have been referred to as Pakis on TV for years in Australia - in a completely non racist way. Paki is simply to an Australian an abbreviation of Pakistani. But I appreciate that in the UK it is found offensive so I don't use it.

Also as a tourist you'll be travelling to places which are homophobic, Sydney isn't, but Darwin most definitely is!! But thats a location thing, most people in the cities are more tolerant and travelled, most people in the country are more hard as f***, men will be men types. So you really can't make sweeping generalisations about this issue.

The one thing I love about Australia is rightly or wrongly we speak our minds somewhat more than the English. The old English habit of being gentlemanly and proper and correct often prohibits the English as a nation to acheive a common goal. In Australia we spit it out and everyone has a barney and we sort it. Unfortunately the English have to worry about someone being offended and this usually means the problem doesn't get sorted, and thats why Australians are often branded racists.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

One thing I found sad about Australia (and generally I loved the place to bits) was that kids with an otherwise sunny disposition and no obvious axe to grind saw absolutely nothing wrong in coming out with strings of 'Abo' jokes. I blame the parents.

 

[tedebear]

One thing I found sad about Australia (and generally I loved the place to bits) was that kids with an otherwise sunny disposition and no obvious axe to grind saw absolutely nothing wrong in coming out with strings of 'Abo' jokes. I blame the parents.

Yes quite! I'd blame the parents too - strange thing is though going to school with Aborigines as I did, I never ever heard a joke about them....to me and my friends (which included some ingenous Christmas Islanders) that was simply not done!!

 

[Stumpy Tim]

I've never heard an abbo joke actually! Heard plenty of "what do you call a xxxxx paki" jokes on NSC about a week ago though... does that make everyone here racist too?