Uncle Buck said:
As much as I think that McCammon has been getting too much abuse on NSC, to say that he is a FLAIR player is going too far the other way
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are we alowed to critisise CKR on here yet?
- Thread starter Publius Ovidius
- Start date
As much as I think that McCammon has been getting too much abuse on NSC, to say that he is a FLAIR player is going too far the other way
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,071
El Presidente said:As much as I think that McCammon has been getting too much abuse on NSC, to say that he is a FLAIR player is going too far the other way
Granted that Peter 'bomber' Canning has shown more flair than our supermarket goods holding product.
Theatre of Trees said:
Just a striker would be nice.
Seem like thats all most of want to do on here. Are we try to say yesterday was down to ckr and the forwards, thats BOLLOCKS. Was someone giving a match winning performance that was thwarted by ckr. I must of missed that
The facts are we are a poor side at the minute for a number of reasons, CKR came on and played about 33 mins yet a lot of the vile seems to be directed at him.
This obviously means we were better for the previous 57. I think not. Away from ckr and Seb we have a very low skill factor. This could still be enough if only seb didn't do ten tricks before crossing instead of simply getting a good ball in ball early, (every time he checks back another player gets back behind the ball when an early cross would often only leave our forwards competing 1v1 against player instead of 4 or 5).
Meanwhile the forwards have to keep trying to regenerate their runs often ending up in the wrong place when the ball finally arrives. This is were it is important that other players make timed run into the box, as mccammon stated it is up to the whole team to score, but also for the team to play to the strenghts of such forwards.
So lets look at how we play.
Until the introduction of Lynch and El-Abd at full back, our defence got continuously mudered by pace FACT.
The players in the full back position were often (almost always) left on their own to face a winger who had the beating of them. Look at the goals against Cardiff home and away Norwich at home Sheffield u at home, Reading away, Millwall oh my god, Coventry in the cup (and MM blamed the forwards) sure there's a couple more. Funny thing is we scored in all but one of thse games.
Seen both Mayo and Reid struggle against pace in some of these games unable to cope with the player running at them, most of you would say it's because there slow. No its because the cover offered is minimal. One of the centre backs should be telling the fullback to hold the up while he comes across to offer cover this can't happen because the one centre back who is quick enough to do this is covering the other who isn't. Not a critisism just a fact. This still happens but Lynch and El-Abd are better equipt to cope with it.
For long periods our defence sit on the top of our 18 yard box (why do we not ask why this is on, nsc) this causes our midfied to sit a short distance in front them. Seb then picks up the ball short and the tries to cover the length of the pitch.
Other than this the ball is generally pumped it to the air or meanlessly into for the forwards to fight (and I mean) fight for it.
If we had a centre midfielder that had a good range of passing or one who could travel with the ball instead of lumping it up to the forwards this would help. We need a forward who can hold the ball up, I hear everyone say for how long a week. None of our midfield try to join in or get beyond the forwards when the ball is central to the goal.
We do not have this kind of player, one who changes his feet and or pace very quickly. Deano I hear you say. No not at the moment any way. Seb maybe, when he is not breaking his neck to and from Frutos instead of drawing a player out and quickly slipping as pass through and beyond the defence for the forwards to run on to ckr would definately benifit from this type of play. If he was on the pitch that is.
This type of central play or player would create space for others to work in, as if he beat his own man he would then draw another from one leaving one of our players open.
Obviously its not just as simple as I have written, but we have the potential to chase the pants off of teams the with the abilty Jake and ckr have ESPECIALLY ON THE GROUND. Yet the young forwards we have are being blamed for our downfall. Shame on mm the fans for this.
There are a lot worse players in the team than those two yet they constanly get hammered. Did Chippy play yesterday didn't see him or Deano. Poor display all round wonder who would of got the blame if the gaffer had not made any changes? Him maybe. So it just gets shifted.
Back to CKR who I would suggest is not happy with a lot on and off the field at the moment.
Yet he who broke his neck to get fit for this game after being purposely smashed to peices by one of his own players in training last week and almost fully recoved from a tackle that would have had many out for months (if you don't believe me ask Race).
I aslo have come to learn that had it not not been for the one year tie in to the CC deal, there are a couple of teams who would of tried to take him already (at least one from the league above) on his displays for us. So he must have something, maybe we need to play to his strengths which going by the goals he scores, is getting the ball in front of him especially to his feet.
I think we need to look at the whole picture without picking on the same old few. Not always in agreement with Mccamon but he is right when he says negitivity does affect the team especially the younger players.
We can help them to get better or we can cause them to get worse. Without doubt CKR has great ability but if we are expecting him to just manifest this without total support from us his teamates and the management it will not happen for him at this club.
I for one will wishing for the best everytime he walks on the pitch.
I dont believe everyone else is. And from what I hear he doesn't think so either.
The facts are we are a poor side at the minute for a number of reasons, CKR came on and played about 33 mins yet a lot of the vile seems to be directed at him.
This obviously means we were better for the previous 57. I think not. Away from ckr and Seb we have a very low skill factor. This could still be enough if only seb didn't do ten tricks before crossing instead of simply getting a good ball in ball early, (every time he checks back another player gets back behind the ball when an early cross would often only leave our forwards competing 1v1 against player instead of 4 or 5).
Meanwhile the forwards have to keep trying to regenerate their runs often ending up in the wrong place when the ball finally arrives. This is were it is important that other players make timed run into the box, as mccammon stated it is up to the whole team to score, but also for the team to play to the strenghts of such forwards.
So lets look at how we play.
Until the introduction of Lynch and El-Abd at full back, our defence got continuously mudered by pace FACT.
The players in the full back position were often (almost always) left on their own to face a winger who had the beating of them. Look at the goals against Cardiff home and away Norwich at home Sheffield u at home, Reading away, Millwall oh my god, Coventry in the cup (and MM blamed the forwards) sure there's a couple more. Funny thing is we scored in all but one of thse games.
Seen both Mayo and Reid struggle against pace in some of these games unable to cope with the player running at them, most of you would say it's because there slow. No its because the cover offered is minimal. One of the centre backs should be telling the fullback to hold the up while he comes across to offer cover this can't happen because the one centre back who is quick enough to do this is covering the other who isn't. Not a critisism just a fact. This still happens but Lynch and El-Abd are better equipt to cope with it.
For long periods our defence sit on the top of our 18 yard box (why do we not ask why this is on, nsc) this causes our midfied to sit a short distance in front them. Seb then picks up the ball short and the tries to cover the length of the pitch.
Other than this the ball is generally pumped it to the air or meanlessly into for the forwards to fight (and I mean) fight for it.
If we had a centre midfielder that had a good range of passing or one who could travel with the ball instead of lumping it up to the forwards this would help. We need a forward who can hold the ball up, I hear everyone say for how long a week. None of our midfield try to join in or get beyond the forwards when the ball is central to the goal.
We do not have this kind of player, one who changes his feet and or pace very quickly. Deano I hear you say. No not at the moment any way. Seb maybe, when he is not breaking his neck to and from Frutos instead of drawing a player out and quickly slipping as pass through and beyond the defence for the forwards to run on to ckr would definately benifit from this type of play. If he was on the pitch that is.
This type of central play or player would create space for others to work in, as if he beat his own man he would then draw another from one leaving one of our players open.
Obviously its not just as simple as I have written, but we have the potential to chase the pants off of teams the with the abilty Jake and ckr have ESPECIALLY ON THE GROUND. Yet the young forwards we have are being blamed for our downfall. Shame on mm the fans for this.
There are a lot worse players in the team than those two yet they constanly get hammered. Did Chippy play yesterday didn't see him or Deano. Poor display all round wonder who would of got the blame if the gaffer had not made any changes? Him maybe. So it just gets shifted.
Back to CKR who I would suggest is not happy with a lot on and off the field at the moment.
Yet he who broke his neck to get fit for this game after being purposely smashed to peices by one of his own players in training last week and almost fully recoved from a tackle that would have had many out for months (if you don't believe me ask Race).
I aslo have come to learn that had it not not been for the one year tie in to the CC deal, there are a couple of teams who would of tried to take him already (at least one from the league above) on his displays for us. So he must have something, maybe we need to play to his strengths which going by the goals he scores, is getting the ball in front of him especially to his feet.
I think we need to look at the whole picture without picking on the same old few. Not always in agreement with Mccamon but he is right when he says negitivity does affect the team especially the younger players.
We can help them to get better or we can cause them to get worse. Without doubt CKR has great ability but if we are expecting him to just manifest this without total support from us his teamates and the management it will not happen for him at this club.
I for one will wishing for the best everytime he walks on the pitch.
I dont believe everyone else is. And from what I hear he doesn't think so either.
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #65
well I agree with about 60% of that.
I take it you have read some of the thread above? CKR is not constantly getting slagged off on here. You have to remember two things...1 we have been used to an England U21 forward who is currently banging in golas in the premiership now. 2. CKR came to the club as part of the Coca Cola deal which due to the press department at the club and the local rag was"bigged up" as a great player. we now find that Yes he is a good player, but he is very raw and in a dogfight which is what we are in at the moment, most fans would have preferred a, as Ernie likes to call it TRIED AND TESTED player. I know this was an ideal and in hinesight that would have been great.
You are obviously in the know about the players and you must realise that people will vent their feelings when things aren't going right.....
My thread was not implied critisism of CKR, it was trying to guage what people thought of him...that was all.
I take it you have read some of the thread above? CKR is not constantly getting slagged off on here. You have to remember two things...1 we have been used to an England U21 forward who is currently banging in golas in the premiership now. 2. CKR came to the club as part of the Coca Cola deal which due to the press department at the club and the local rag was"bigged up" as a great player. we now find that Yes he is a good player, but he is very raw and in a dogfight which is what we are in at the moment, most fans would have preferred a, as Ernie likes to call it TRIED AND TESTED player. I know this was an ideal and in hinesight that would have been great.
You are obviously in the know about the players and you must realise that people will vent their feelings when things aren't going right.....
My thread was not implied critisism of CKR, it was trying to guage what people thought of him...that was all.
Blackadder
Brighton Bhuna Boy
Interesting First post there Debo.
Rougvie
Rising Damp
Debo said:
Bloody hell.
Theatre of Trees
Well-known member
One thing that did disgust me last night was a bloke a couple of rows down shouting 'I hope you're hurt' when CKR went down injured near the end.
Uncle Buck
Ghost Writer
- Jul 7, 2003
- 28,071
Debo said:
Trolley?
TSB
Captain Hindsight
Do people actually realise how old and inexperienced he is?!
Morons!!!!!
He will improve in time but he wont be the finished article for at least 2 years so shut up and let him get on with it. Don't forget that we have no experienced striker for him to learn off at the moment.
Give the lad a chance. Are your lives so dull and unfulfilling that you have to slag off every brighton player?!
Morons!!!!!
He will improve in time but he wont be the finished article for at least 2 years so shut up and let him get on with it. Don't forget that we have no experienced striker for him to learn off at the moment.
Give the lad a chance. Are your lives so dull and unfulfilling that you have to slag off every brighton player?!
My thread was not implied critisism of CKR, it was trying to guage what people thought of him...that was all.
My answer was not in critsism of you question just pointing out some facts that are true. If are forwards are to be expected to score all the time then our defence must be expected not to conceed. If this happened all the time we would not be having this debate. But the general critisism seems to be directed to the forwards, when we obviouly have problems all over the pitch
My answer was not in critsism of you question just pointing out some facts that are true. If are forwards are to be expected to score all the time then our defence must be expected not to conceed. If this happened all the time we would not be having this debate. But the general critisism seems to be directed to the forwards, when we obviouly have problems all over the pitch
Albion Rob
New member
To compare CKR to Bobby Zamora, as some have, is so grossly unfair.
Let's not forget, we were last chance saloon for Zamora. We were in the third division, he had a great loan spell including a hat trick inj a 7-1 away win, and we signed him.
He then proceeded to score a hatful of goals for what was a very good Brighton side for that level, as has been proved by the number of players who were in that squad who have represented us one or two divisions higher.
Also don't forget that Zamora was on his last legs at West Ham before he found a bit of form and he is now - I'm biased here - maybe an outside shout for an England place if we were to get a couple more striking injuries.
Point is, if we were playing two division below, CKR would be banging them in. His movement are good, certainly good enough for a lower level, but not quite there in this division.
I genuinely believe it will come and he will come good. If we had a player who could play in front of him, I reckon he would really turn things around for himself.
The kid will come good - I'm sure of it.
Let's not forget, we were last chance saloon for Zamora. We were in the third division, he had a great loan spell including a hat trick inj a 7-1 away win, and we signed him.
He then proceeded to score a hatful of goals for what was a very good Brighton side for that level, as has been proved by the number of players who were in that squad who have represented us one or two divisions higher.
Also don't forget that Zamora was on his last legs at West Ham before he found a bit of form and he is now - I'm biased here - maybe an outside shout for an England place if we were to get a couple more striking injuries.
Point is, if we were playing two division below, CKR would be banging them in. His movement are good, certainly good enough for a lower level, but not quite there in this division.
I genuinely believe it will come and he will come good. If we had a player who could play in front of him, I reckon he would really turn things around for himself.
The kid will come good - I'm sure of it.
Lokki 7
WSU
Some interesting debut posts today. Can't help thinking some people close to the players are making them.
Albion Rob
New member
Lokki 7 said:
Ha, ha, I was thinking the same.
It's come to something when the lads have to here to see how they're being slagged off.
Well it'll either fire them up or make them not give a toss on Saturday so we should be able to work out who they are.
Lokki 7
WSU
Albion Rob said:
If all they have seen of NSC is what is on here today then I think they will get a skewed view. They should come back when we haven't played for a week and the conversation is onto the colour of your pets poo.
Barnet Seagull
Luxury Player
Debo said:
Positioning and ability to tackle.
FACT
Albion Rob
New member
Lokki 7 said:
They're better off heading to NSP. It's where all the cool dudes go.
Debo said:
If that's true what ARSEHOLE within our own team would set out to injure our top scorer and argueably most promosing player? name and shame I say!!!
McGee should have the same two strikers starting every game to give them a good run, I liked what I see CKR and Hart get a run together, I think they compliment each other in their styles of play and could be some serious goals within the partnership!!
Beeneys gloves
New member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 1,467
I reckon Debo is Dodd, sounds quite articulate and knows the game, also has has had plenty of time to watch us from the sidelines!
Publius Ovidius
Well-known member
- Thread starter
- #80
Debo said:
that is a perfectly fair point and I agree.
If we are being perfectly candid, hand on heart, we can say this season as a whole:
defence....strong in the air, weak on the ground, fullbacks beaten too many times...getting better with Lynch and Mcshane and El Abd.
midfield....not creative enough, two decent wingers still adapting to english football, centre of midfield poor ( shame Charlie got injured and Nicholas ditto)
upfront.... missed too may chances, dont look penetrating enough, do not command defences, but flip side we get into positions to score.....
that in a nutshell is why we are down at the bottom of the league.
The daft thing is MM was right yesterday saying of the 14 games we have drawn, we could easily have won 5 or 6 of them...then this would be all acedemic.
I think on the whole we are all singing off the same hymn sheet, just not the same notes