Are Religious People Nutters?

[Vlad the Impala]

During BBC interview with BLAIR, he raised

"You talk about it (religion) in our system and, frankly, people do think you're a nutter. I mean … you may go off and sit in the corner and … commune with the man upstairs and then come back and say 'right, I've been told the answer and that's it'."

Personally, I agree with Blair here, he's a nutter. This man upstairs, was it Gordon Brown? If it was "God", sorry Blair he doesn't exist!

Actually, if God, did exist and he was solely Christian, then should you be taking the advice of someone with such a vested interest, in areas of Policy such as Iraq.

Blair's confession alarms me, last night he failed to outline any explicable, justifiable and concrete reason why we - the UK - got involved with Iraq. Unless it was part of his Christian Crusade to remove unbelievers from the middle east.

I suspect that makes you an intolerant bigot and a stirrer - you are the kind of person we need fewer of, not religious people. Religious people in general do a tremendous amount of good in this world. It is just ignorant idiots that treat millions of good people based on the actions of a tiny minority that we need fewer of.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

the society i live in (at least in a 'moral' sense) is identical to most human communities. by your argument, ALL people who do not believe in your christian god, are IMMORAL. this cannot be true. there are communities that have been untouched by christain influence that still exhibit basic understanding of justice and fairness. christian teaching is an arbitrary set of rules that may have codified what was instilled, but by no means invented it. if you think morals were 'invented' 2007 years ago, you are deluded.

and i would prefer 'oh wise one' to be capitalised.

thanks for coming back, did you have double maths followed by a PE session before you were allowed back to the computer room ?

for the RECORD 'OH WISE ONE' - at no point have I even mentioned people who don't believe in a Christain god as IMMORAL. My very point was that religion is a basic set of rules that ensures the very fabric of society does not fall down.


I really wish you would stop all this 'PITY and DELUDED crap aswell. You come across like a 13 year old stroppy teenager who is trying to come to terms with having pubes

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Is raising a child ever not indoctrination of some sort? Mine have a sort of liberal and what I would like to think is open-minded (except in terms of the Albion) kind of indoctrination. But it's indoctrination all the same.

of course. but you have to see the difference, buz. 'indoctrinating' a child to be liberal and to think for themselves allows them to discover christianity, if it's the best fit for them. the same cannot be said for indoctrinating into the church. this is why secularism cannot be thought of as 'just another religion' because it does not impose the inherent limits that religions do.

 

[Cian]

right......

so, oh wise one.....

the society you live in orginally based its morals on the church.....so you live by morals and laws set down from Christianty. This is not subject - it is fact.

if you can't grasp this very, very basic thing..... I pity you back (x100000000000000)

The society *I* live in had its morals enshrined in law (and believe me - what the rulers see as morals are or were very much set down in law here) hundreds of years before Christianity came to the country and the common law legal system based upon them is still in existence. This *is* fact. Your assertion that the UKs morals are based on the Christian church is likely heavily flawed too, although you did get Christianity before we did.

 

[goldstone]

Simple really.

Of course they are.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

thanks for coming back, did you have double maths followed by a PE session before you were allowed back to the computer room ?

for the RECORD 'OH WISE ONE' - at no point have I even mentioned people who don't believe in a Christain god as IMMORAL. My very point was that religion is a basic set of rules that ensures the very fabric of society does not fall down.


I really wish you would stop all this 'PITY and DELUDED crap aswell. You come across like a 13 year old stroppy teenager who is trying to come to terms with having pubes

single maths. and i'd exhausted my hour. but i've got more credits and 'm back now.

by your account, people who don't believe in a christian god must be immoral. any act is either moral, or it's not. if all good morals are in the bible, and all the bad ones are not, you can only do a moral act by either believing in jesus and doing as he would, or doing it by accident (and god knows when you don't believe).

if there are moral acts that are not included in the bible, it is an incomplete account, and so should be disregarded entirely as the word of god.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

The society *I* live in had its morals enshrined in law (and believe me - what the rulers see as morals are or were very much set down in law here) hundreds of years before Christianity came to the country and the common law legal system based upon them is still in existence. This *is* fact. Your assertion that the UKs morals are based on the Christian church is likely heavily flawed too, although you did get Christianity before we did.

valid point, however, the first commonly accepted and practiced religon on these shores was Christianity - therefore, most of what our moralistic code is based upon now is a derivative from that.

n.b TID this does not mean that anyone who does not believe in a Christian God is IMMORAL.....duh

 

[Lokki 7]

if there are moral acts that are not included in the bible, it is an incomplete account, and so should be disregarded entirely as the word of god.

Even by your standards, that really is a stupid thing to write.

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

we can all write down in a book "be nice to each other and don't kill people 'n' that." it doesn't mean we invented a moral code.

 

[Cian]

valid point, however, the first commonly accepted and practiced religon on these shores was Christianity - therefore, most of what our moralistic code is based upon now is a derivative from that.

n.b TID this does not mean that anyone who does not believe in a Christian God is IMMORAL.....duh

I find the pre-Christian Irish moral code a lot closer to whats lived out and is legal that what the bible says we can do.

Of course, I'm wearing woven fibres, and although I can't eat shellfish I do break a lot of the rest of Leviticus at least once a week, does this mean I'm immoral? Because the bible suggests that.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

single maths. and i'd exhausted my hour. but i've got more credits and 'm back now.

by your account, people who don't believe in a christian god must be immoral.(NO)any act is either moral, or it's not. if all good morals are in the bible,(NO) and all the bad ones are not,(NO) you can only do a moral act by either believing in jesus (NO)and doing as he would, or doing it by accident (and god knows when you don't believe).(EXPLAIN)

if there are moral acts that are not included in the bible, it is an incomplete account,(NO) and so should be disregarded entirely as the word of god.

3/10 please see me after class

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

Even by your standards, that really is a stupid thing to write.

i resent that comment. i create new standards of stupidity on a daily basis. but either the bible is a complete moral code, or it is not. if it is insufficient, how can it be the work of an omniscient god?

 

[Dave the OAP]

single maths. and i'd exhausted my hour. but i've got more credits and 'm back now.

by your account, people who don't believe in a christian god must be immoral. any act is either moral, or it's not. if all good morals are in the bible, and all the bad ones are not, you can only do a moral act by either believing in jesus and doing as he would, or doing it by accident (and god knows when you don't believe).

if there are moral acts that are not included in the bible, it is an incomplete account, and so should be disregarded entirely as the word of god.

The Old Testament is a collection of fables/stories whatever you want to call them that goes someway to tell people living at the time how to live their lives. It is also a collection of historical events in the history of the Jewish nation ( Moses, flight of the Jewish people from Egyptian slavery etc etc) and has been embelished with exagerations ( parting of the waves, Jonah and the whale etc etc) over time. take the Tower of babel. At that time, people were obviously starting to travel and meeting other nations who talked differently, how were they going to explain this to the population without alarming them....tell them a story that God had made people talk differently as punishment for tring to reach God in their vanity! If you dont read too much into the detail, the Old Testament is thus a collection of morals.

the new testament, however is a historical document written at the time buy many people cataloging the life of a particular prophet called Jesus ( in the same way as the Koran speaks of Mohammed and Jesus also).

If you believe that Jesus was the "messiah" as fortold by Jewish history, then Christianity is your thing, if you dont, then it is not. Its VERY VERY Simple

To kill in the name of any religion is only supported by the fanatical side of said religions.......be it the Inquisition, crusaders, Islamic fundamentalists etc etc.

That is the difference

 

[Tesco in Disguise]

so why base your entire belief system around a book that says "here are a few to get you going"?

 

[readingstockport]

valid point, however, the first commonly accepted and practiced religon on these shores was Christianity - therefore, most of what our moralistic code is based upon now is a derivative from that.

n.b TID this does not mean that anyone who does not believe in a Christian God is IMMORAL.....duh

No it wasn't. There are far far older religions that were commonly practiced on these islands before the christian one arrived. For someone to suggest that all moral authority derives from religion is as non-sensical as for those who deny that religion has a moral foundation. Of course most religions have a moral foundation, thing is god does not exist and was invented by man to give him some reason to live.

There's someone on this board who has as his sig a comment about not being able to believe in a compasionate and loving god who created all things when he created a wasp whose sole purpose in life is to lay grubs inside the body of a living caterpillar. Can't recall who it is but I agree with him wholeheartedly. And quite frankly if that god DOES exists then I refuse to worship the kind of warped mind that did such a thing.

 

[Nibble]

A lot of our morals, festivals, outlooks and services were stolen from Druidism and used by Christians to their own ends. The differance being that Druids had genuine morals and didn't believe in worshiping a deity but paying respect to Earth and it's forces. The Christian faith, based on property and ownership installed a higher power to strike fear into its followers and build a vast network of property, treasures and wealth.

One of the purposes behind not allowing priests etc to marry is that they would have most likely left their property anmd money to their families, instead they usually left it to the church as they had no immediate family to bequeth to.

Christianity was based on lies, money, greed and power and it's morals are questionable at best. This is not to say that there aren't good Christians but that the moral codes of founding Christians and the entire structure of organised Christianity is based on almost no morals whatsoever.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

I find the pre-Christian Irish moral code a lot closer to whats lived out and is legal that what the bible says we can do.

Of course, I'm wearing woven fibres, and although I can't eat shellfish I do break a lot of the rest of Leviticus at least once a week, does this mean I'm immoral? Because the bible suggests that.

Not at all MYOB, I am sure you are a very nice, moralistic person. The clue in this discussion is 'based upon'

 

[Nibble]

valid point, however, the first commonly accepted and practiced religon on these shores was Christianity - therefore, most of what our moralistic code is based upon now is a derivative from that.

n.b TID this does not mean that anyone who does not believe in a Christian God is IMMORAL.....duh

Sorry, Christianity is far from the first accepted, practiced religion on these shores, probably by hundreds of thousands of years.

 

[Buzzer]

i resent that comment. i create new standards of stupidity on a daily basis. but either the bible is a complete moral code, or it is not. if it is insufficient, how can it be the work of an omniscient god?

It can be a complete moral code. Surely it depends on the individual. You could just choose to live by the ethos of treating others as you would want to be treated and I'd say that you'd probably be able to get by in life quite well.

You'd probably want a few as backup though. Not coveting your neighbour's oxen, washing your hands after having a pee, not sharing a prison cell with anyone called Bubba. That sort of thing.

 

[Dave the OAP]

so why base your entire belief system around a book that says "here are a few to get you going"?

because some people believe that it is best to live your life morally than others. What is so wrong with that?