A Level Results tomorrow

[Dandyman]

Not what I said. I approach it from the job market.

Wot I said is that there are only a certain number of jobs for the 'intelligent' (however you define that). As this is a finite number then it follows that only a certain % of Joe Public can achieve those jobs.

The Government can dish out as many exam results as it likes, but it cant change this fundamental.

Hence we see increasing despair and disillusionment among new graduates. They were promised the earth and just got dirt instead.

I think you have to seperate two different concepts - one is education as something of value in itself (and one that might lead to a flowering of greater human potential) and the second is education as a factory for producing workers of a certain level of ability and understanding.

It is probably true that the second concept has been the prime mover in establishing universal education from the late Victorian age onwards but it is does not, IMO, invalidate the first concept.

 

[the full harris]

I think you have to seperate two different concepts - one is education as something of value in itself (and one that might lead to a flowering of greater human potential) and the second is education as a factory for producing workers of a certain level of ability and understanding.

It is probably true that the second concept has been the prime mover in establishing universal education from the late Victorian age onwards but it is does not, IMO, invalidate the first concept.

I've read that twice and I do not have a clue what it means.

 

[El Presidente]

Intelligence is not something that can be taught. Everyone gets their lot and has to make the best of it.

Agree partially, you cannot teach someone to become an Einstein, but you can nurture B grade students to become A's, C's to become B's etc.

As for their being a finite number of 'good' jobs available, this is not quite the case. There has been a move away from blue collar to white collar, professional employment over the course of the last century. For this to succeed you do need more people capable of being doctors, lawyers, architects, failed fanzine editors, accountants, investment bankers etc.

What we are finding is that if you give more people the opportunity to succeed, more will succeed.

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

my girlfriend got CDD

she doesn't really care though as she's not going to uni, and they're still decent grades


atleast she did worse than me though

 

[the full harris]

Actually. Does it mean that Education can either be learning so that you know more or learning to reach a certain standard which can pass an exam? We do the latter in schools but the former is still not completely irrelevant?

Though, I still don't see how that relates to Uncle C's post.


EDIT that's following on from:

I've read that twice and I do not have a clue what it means.

 

[the full harris]

Agree partially, you cannot teach someone to become an Einstein, but you can nurture B grade students to become A's, C's to become B's etc.

As for their being a finite number of 'good' jobs available, this is not quite the case. There has been a move away from blue collar to white collar, professional employment over the course of the last century. For this to succeed you do need more people capable of being doctors, lawyers, architects, failed fanzine editors, accountants, investment bankers etc.

What we are finding is that if you give more people the opportunity to succeed, more will succeed.

Ah, but what is a 'good' job? Scientists get paid less than senior advertising executives. Which is the 'better' job?

 

[Dandyman]

I've read that twice and I do not have a clue what it means.

Should have gone to a proper Uni rather than a rugger bugger institute, then.

 

[El Presidente]

Ah, but what is a 'good' job? Scientists get paid less than senior advertising executives. Which is the 'better' job?

Some scientists are very well paid though, depends on the nature of their specialised subject. Agree with you that there are too many spiv subjects that are rewarded disproportianately to the contribution they make to society, Norman Baker and Anne De Veedee immediately come to mind.

Science and engineering is vastly underappreciated here in the UK, so that is why pay is lower. There are lots of people in the advertising industry who are paid peanuts, and the majority of the 'well paid' ones have a degree from a recognised uni.

 

[the full harris]

Hence we see increasing despair and disillusionment among new graduates. They were promised the earth and just got dirt instead.

I have a great real life example of this.

A mate of mine has just got a masters from Oxford in Economics (or something complicated along those lines) having already got a first in Economics from Cambridge. He is about to start working for the Bank of England where he will be part of one of the teams that help decide the interest rate. He was talking to one of his younger sister's friends the other day who is just about to begin a Marketing degree at University of Kent at Canterbury. She, totally seriously, told him that she'd be on £100k when she left uni and she'd buy him a car if he liked. He didn't have the heart to say anything other than a polite "thanks very much".

Naivety is quite sweet, it's harsh to think how it will have been beaten out of her in 4 years. The unrealistic expectations of university entrants is quite frightening really.

 

[the full harris]

Some scientists are very well paid though, depends on the nature of their specialised subject. Agree with you that there are too many spiv subjects that are rewarded disproportianately to the contribution they make to society, Norman Baker and Anne De Veedee immediately come to mind.

Science and engineering is vastly underappreciated here in the UK, so that is why pay is lower. There are lots of people in the advertising industry who are paid peanuts, and the majority of the 'well paid' ones have a degree from a recognised uni.

I probably quoted a bad example but, yes, that was what I was getting at.

 

[the full harris]

Should have gone to a proper Uni rather than a rugger bugger institute, then.

 

[Tooting Gull]

I am on the receiving end of A levels, and I am also an examiner for a fairly senior professional qualification for the whole of the UK. IMO the standard both joining and leaving uni is pretty good. I say a big hats off to all who have earned their grades, because in my day (1978-80) I just arsed around for two years and relied on my memory to get me through.

There is nothing wrong with a modular approach to learning, it is less stressful, and allows examiners to test the application of knowedge rather than just brain dumps of facts.

The constant sniping at the results is just the sneering attitude of a certain type of person. We have that type of individual here on NSC, as also exists in all walks of life, but especially in the editorial room of the Mail and Express. This type of person is convinced that a return to national service, rickets and short back and sides is what the country needs, and they are not prepared to give 'the kids' (c) Rik of The Young Ones, and credit for their efforts.

The main reason why girls obtain better grades than boys is that at the age of 18 they are more mature, and have better looking jugs.

What a load of drivel. You will find the view that A levels are easier spread right across the country, and if you are opting to pigeonhole it by newspaper (probably a mistake) then also across all broadsheets.

How is it 'sneering' to have the opinion exams are easier? No one saying that has an axe to grind. There exists an enormous body of evidence that is the case. Maybe everyone should just pretend that 50 per cent of the population are now straight A students.

You let down any argument you have (already very weak) with - dare I say it - sneering and flippant references to national service, what's that got to do with education?

In fact your whole post reeks of someone who is actually part of the problem, has kidded themselves/been kidded that the new way is better, and is passing that on to others, flying in the face of all the facts.

 

[Rougvie]

my girlfriend got CDD

Did she get that from eating meat ?

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Did she get that from eating meat ?

you could call it meat

 

[turienzo's lovechild]

Disaster at this end, Thomas! Young Gemma got BBB which beats the BBD I achieved 12 months ago. How will I live this down?

By the way, are you happy with the Forest details as outlined in my wonderous email?

you're gonna have to give her a couple of black eyes aren't you? stamp down your authority...i expect her to be black and blue come saturday


i can't open my e-mails from work, i shall have a look once home

 

[Wilko]

Just thought I would add my point of view as an A -level teacher.

I do not think that the exam papers themselves are easier, in fact many of the same questions come up year after year in a new format or slightly re-worded.

However the format IS easier. The old A-level usually consisted of one 3hr exam at the end of your 2 year course, if you were having an off day then you were screwed.

Now you have 6 modules over the 2 year period and have the option of re-taking 'AS' modules in January for those that you did not achieve your expected grade.

I have been at School all morning congratulating and consoling many a pupil and I think it is really harsh on them to read about people saying A-levels are too easy. Those that have got good grades have worked bloody hard for them and the format HAS changed over the last 6 years, but that is not their fault is it !!!

P.S. just for the record, my results from 1996:

Sociology A
Business A
Psychology A

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Not what I said. I approach it from the job market.

Wot I said is that there are only a certain number of jobs for the 'intelligent' (however you define that). As this is a finite number then it follows that only a certain % of Joe Public can achieve those jobs.

The Government can dish out as many exam results as it likes, but it cant change this fundamental.

Hence we see increasing despair and disillusionment among new graduates. They were promised the earth and just got dirt instead.

good job you didnt interview my niece then.

She got a 2:1 in Chemistry something from Cambridge ( jesus) has 4 Grade A at A* Grade and 12 GCSE's all at A Grade. She is employed by Kraft and is working her way up the ladder very nicely thankyou...in fact she is hardly in the country being sent on courses in such places as Los Angeles, Kuala Lumpur etc etc.

As you will only look at Honours people, you would have missed her.

Oh BTW The government wanted her at Porton Down and offered her an obscene amount of money to work there.

 

[Withdean Wanderer]

Disaster at this end, Thomas! Young Gemma got BBB which beats the BBD I achieved 12 months ago. How will I live this down?

By the way, are you happy with the Forest details as outlined in my wonderous email?

That, my friend, is a bugger.

However, you can boast of how you took far harder subjects, and use the ridiculous argument that a-levels are harder this year in order to show her who's boss!

Also, have you filled the Forest vacancies?