[Politics] 2020 US election - Joe Biden vs Donald Trump

[Fitzcarraldo]

That doesn't make sense. If five people claim they saw votes not being counted but dumped in a bin, and call the police, they are not expected to provide the evidence as they won't have it. The police would be expected to follow this up to see if this was the case.

The people making the claims are unlikely to be able to provide evidence. They are merely putting together there own witness statements and asking the authorities to investigate.

The media are right to say the claims are unsubstantiated, but they are not right to suggest they are invalid. That has made me uncomfortable.

Their witness statements would be their evidence (presuming they hadn't bothered to take videos on their phones which they could also submit). The Police's role would be to then try and establish if there was further evidence or, if there wasn't, whether the 'witnesses' made it up.

 

[LlcoolJ]

That doesn't make sense. If five people claim they saw votes not being counted but dumped in a bin, and call the police, they are not expected to provide the evidence as they won't have it. The police would be expected to follow this up to see if this was the case.

The people making the claims are unlikely to be able to provide evidence. They are merely putting together there own witness statements and asking the authorities to investigate.

The media are right to say the claims are unsubstantiated, but they are not right to suggest they are invalid. That has made me uncomfortable.

There is bound to have been fraud in some areas. It is expected. But the key issue is to establish if there were co-ordinated efforts of obstruction on a large scale.

But the claims are along the lines of "my sister in law said that her neighbour heard that his brother (who works at the town hall) was told that some ballots weren't checked by a woman who he used to work with".

It's complete horseshit and I feel completely comfortable in saying that.

You're falling for the "say something enough and it must be true" plan that Trump has always used, with everything.

 

[beorhthelm]

I found this video on how the Repulicans could, through the Supreme Court, throw the doors open to blatant Republican fraud in the future.

sure, if they want to go nuclear and undermine the basic tenets of democratic votes. it doesn't even need supreme court, the local republican legislatures would apply the changes. and democratic legislatures would follow suit in their favour. as it stands its local law that enforces popular vote, the constitution only requires the states send some electors, not how their vote is decided. funny thing about US, democracy is at the state level but not for Presidential election, its a massive opinion poll.

 

[rogersix]

https://youtu.be/kNPGhD3Fpls

You've not been mugged off again have ya? Not again...it's like..... it's like you're doing it on purpose

 

[beorhthelm]

And I challenge each and every one of you pocket revolutionaries to name a SINGLE revolution in human history that was not bloody and even in the medium term, counter-productive.

though no pocket revolutionary, i'll offer you the Glorious Revolution 1688, William of Orange takes over the monarch of England. worked out pretty well.

 

[Igzilla]

And I challenge each and every one of you pocket revolutionaries to name a SINGLE revolution in human history that was not bloody and even in the medium term, counter-productive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singi...tonian: Laulev,Latvia, and Lithuania from the

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velve...(Czech: sametová,November to 29 December 1989

though no pocket revolutionary, i'll offer you the Glorious Revolution 1688, William of Orange takes over the monarch of England. worked out pretty well.

Does this one count?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution

 

[Rodney Thomas]

And I challenge each and every one of you pocket revolutionaries to name a SINGLE revolution in human history that was not bloody and even in the medium term, counter-productive.

The Portuguese Carnation Revolution

Edit: the aftermath was a bit flaky

 

[Curious Orange]

From what I've read it seems that the Trump legal team (note the the Republican party don't appear to be taking part in the legal action) seem to be heading towards the route of trying to get postal voting declared illegal.

Quite scary when you think about it, they want to "protect" the democratic rights of those who voted in person by completely disenfranchising those who didn't.

 

[Igzilla]

The Portuguese Carnation Revolution

Snap!

I found this one too...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_Revolution_of_1990

 

[CHAPPERS]

From what I've read it seems that the Trump legal team (note the the Republican party don't appear to be taking part in the legal action) seem to be heading towards the route of trying to get postal voting declared illegal.

Quite scary when you think about it, they want to "protect" the democratic rights of those who voted in person by completely disenfranchising those who didn't.

This will fall at the first hurdle when they question Trump on how he voted.

 

[beorhthelm]

From what I've read it seems that the Trump legal team (note the the Republican party don't appear to be taking part in the legal action) seem to be heading towards the route of trying to get postal voting declared illegal.

Quite scary when you think about it, they want to "protect" the democratic rights of those who voted in person by completely disenfranchising those who didn't.

in some states. quite happy about postal voting in Texas, Florida, Alaska and so on.

fun thing is, as pointed out in Vox video earlier, in at least one contentious state, Pennsylvania, they lost before the postal ballots were counted.

 

[Hugo Rune]

From what I've read it seems that the Trump legal team (note the the Republican party don't appear to be taking part in the legal action) seem to be heading towards the route of trying to get postal voting declared illegal.

Quite scary when you think about it, they want to "protect" the democratic rights of those who voted in person by completely disenfranchising those who didn't.

If the aim is to keep Trump at the White House, they need to prove widespread fraud across the states, flipping somewhere through litigation like Pennsylvania is not enough. I don’t think they have the time or money to go state-by-state.

Targeting the whole system is their best tactic. Their main point is that voters were automatically sent ‘Mail-in’ ballots rather than having to register for an absentee postal voter ballot as is normal. They’ll argue that this system (which has surely saved thousands of lives by allowing right thinking folk to avoid crowded polling stations) has opened the door to the possibility of widespread fraud. It’s a conspiracy theory and they’ll need evidence to back it up, the question is, how much evidence can they gather?

The end result will be federal litigation that could end up at Trump’s pre-prepared Supreme Court; that is scary.

 

[keaton]

That doesn't make sense. If five people claim they saw votes not being counted but dumped in a bin, and call the police, they are not expected to provide the evidence as they won't have it. The police would be expected to follow this up to see if this was the case.

The people making the claims are unlikely to be able to provide evidence. They are merely putting together there own witness statements and asking the authorities to investigate.

The media are right to say the claims are unsubstantiated, but they are not right to suggest they are invalid. That has made me uncomfortable.

There is bound to have been fraud in some areas. It is expected. But the key issue is to establish if there were co-ordinated efforts of obstruction on a large scale.

Aren't the media saying they've produced no evidence? Trump has been stating the election would be stolen by postal votes for at least 8-10 weeks if not much longer. You would have thought we he's said it so many times he'd have found some clear evidence with all the resources at his disposal

 

[Gwylan]

though no pocket revolutionary, i'll offer you the Glorious Revolution 1688, William of Orange takes over the monarch of England. worked out pretty well.

While pretty low-key, it wasn't entirely bloodless. A few thousand died at the battle of Killiecrankie and a few thousand more at the battle of the Boyne.

And as its aftermath was the Troubles in Northern Ireland, I wouldn't say it worked out 'pretty well', it was a revolultion that created a whole heap of trouble

 

[Hugo Rune]

in some states. quite happy about postal voting in Texas, Florida, Alaska and so on.

fun thing is, as pointed out in Vox video earlier, in at least one contentious state, Pennsylvania, they lost before the postal ballots were counted.

They’ll be looking to get every single postal vote in the US annulled. They’ll win the election hands down if it is just in person votes.

However, 100 Million Americans having their votes withdrawn would likely cause something akin to a civil war.

I suspect Trump’s legal team would ask for another election with no postal votes rather than claiming victory in this one.

 

[daveinprague]

The Portuguese Carnation Revolution

Edit: the aftermath was a bit flaky

I was involved in this one. There were 27 NATO ships in Lisbon at the time, after a major exercise. They knew Spain (Franco) couldn't help out if they were there. We had no clue. On the night I was in the Texas bar and an American started off bad mouthing the Queen. A Dutch marine picked him up and literally threw him, and it kicked off between Americans, Dutch, Canadians and British. Mate came in and said there was 3 lines of riot police coming down the road. We thought it was a bit of an overeaction to a bar fight, albeit an epic one.They rounded us all up and marched us back to the docks, passing tanks heading in the other direction. Only when we got back to the ship did it become clear what was occurring

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This will fall at the first hurdle when they question Trump on how he voted.

I’m sure he will happily void his own postal vote if it means doing the same with all the others.
I’m curious as to how this could be done retrospectively. Surely election procedure should be hard coded into law before an election ? Postal voting could be banned for the future if a law to that effect were passed in their version of parliament ? (excuse my ignorance as to how their system works). It would be deeply undermining of democracy to disenfranchise people like my Mum (in this country) but I don’t suppose ‘Trump’s legal team’ care much about that.

 

[Curious Orange]

I suspect Trump’s legal team would ask for another election with no postal votes rather than claiming victory in this one.

They probably should have pointed this out to President Trump before they started down this route...

 

[Motogull]

From what I've read it seems that the Trump legal team (note the the Republican party don't appear to be taking part in the legal action) seem to be heading towards the route of trying to get postal voting declared illegal.

Quite scary when you think about it, they want to "protect" the democratic rights of those who voted in person by completely disenfranchising those who didn't.

Not my choice of TV but the morning after the vote I saw Morgan speak to (the still very sexy) Sarah Palin. She voted by post and was of the firm view that all votes had to be counted.

The bungle****'s support is thinning right down.

 

[beorhthelm]

They’ll be looking to get every single postal vote in the US annulled. They’ll win the election hands down if it is just in person votes.

However, 100 Million Americans having their votes withdrawn would likely cause something akin to a civil war.

I suspect Trump’s legal team would ask for another election with no postal votes rather than claiming victory in this one.

exactly, and thats going way too far. another election isnt an option. Supreme Court has no power to force one, they adjudicate on points of law. they might be partisan on matter of principle or moral views, its unlikely they will want to become overtly political and directly interfere with the outcome. and the local state legislatures would resist, as it stamps on their autonomy even if republican.