[Albion] "You're black and you stink" Rodriquez comment to Bong? - FA say not proven

[Hungry Joe]

I don't accept that it is possible because Gaetan Bong states that it was not possible that he misheard it.

You've lost me now.

 

[Hungry Joe]

I agree the decision is correct, because neither the FA nor Rodriguez's lip reader could see his mouth, because his fingers were in the way. That doesn't make Bong mistaken. One of the lip readers picked up the word garlic, and Bong speaks French, which ties in with the 'stink' accusation. Even if it wasn't the word black, there is still an element of nationalism about it.

I'm sure this has already been posted on here, but there are 3 possibilities -

Bong didn't hear what he says he heard = possible = Bong is a liar
Rodriguez said what Bong says he heard = possible = Rodriguez is a liar
Bong thought he heard something that Rodriguez didn't actually say = possible = neither are liars

Your last point is open to conjecture. I've complained about a friend's garlic breath before, does that make me a racist / nationalist? I'm not trying to defend Rodriguez here, he behaved like a child at the very least, BUT it cannot be proven beyond that, and I accept that and therefore give him the benefit of the doubt, as I would if the situation were reversed.

 

[Perkino]

One player makes a needless gesture towards another and is accused of being racist, there is clear footage of something being said intended to unsettle the opposition player. I'm shocked it took this long and that he has got away with it

 

[NooBHA]

You've lost me now.

Let me explain then

If I was Gaetan Bong and I had heard the comment and someone said to me immediately after the statement ''Could you be mistaken'' I would know if there could conceivably have been different words spoken. By the same token. If I knew for sure that those were the exact words spoken then I would know.

You know in your own mind when there could have been a possibility that you are wrong. And conversely there are time you you know for sure that there is no way possible that you misheard the statement. - Bong states categorically that there is no way that he misheard him

He has been consistent all along in that belief so for me to accept I could be wrong would be to disbelieve Gaetan that he is inaccurate in his dissertation. And there is no way that I would take that stance.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm sure this has already been posted on here, but there are 3 possibilities -

Bong didn't hear what he says he heard = possible = Bong is a liar
Rodriguez said what Bong says he heard = possible = Rodriguez is a liar
Bong thought he heard something that Rodriguez didn't actually say = possible = neither are liars

Your last point is open to conjecture. I've complained about a friend's garlic breath before, does that make me a racist / nationalist? I'm not trying to defend Rodriguez here, he behaved like a child at the very least, BUT it cannot be proven beyond that, and I accept that and therefore give him the benefit of the doubt, as I would if the situation were reversed.

Was your friend French or a French speaker? Garlic breath on a British person doesn't have quite the same impact.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Let me explain then

If I was Gaetan Bong and I had heard the comment and someone said to me immediately after the statement ''Could you be mistaken'' I would know if there could conceivably have been different words spoken. By the same token. If I knew for sure that those were the exact words spoken then I would know.

You know in your own mind when there could have been a possibility that you are wrong. And conversely there are time you you know for sure that there is no way possible that you misheard the statement. - Bong states categorically that there is no way that he misheard him

He has been consistent all along in that belief so for me to accept I could be wrong would be to disbelieve Gaetan that he is inaccurate in his dissertation. And there is no way that I would take that stance.

Bizarre. All I'll say then is I hope you never sit on a hearing / jury where you have to be fair and impartial and make a decision based on evidence rather than emotion and what you want to believe.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Let me explain then

If I was Gaetan Bong and I had heard the comment and someone said to me immediately after the statement ''Could you be mistaken'' I would know if there could conceivably have been different words spoken. By the same token. If I knew for sure that those were the exact words spoken then I would know.

You know in your own mind when there could have been a possibility that you are wrong. And conversely there are time you you know for sure that there is no way possible that you misheard the statement. - Bong states categorically that there is no way that he misheard him

He has been consistent all along in that belief so for me to accept I could be wrong would be to disbelieve Gaetan that he is inaccurate in his dissertation. And there is no way that I would take that stance.

The panel also commented on Bong's facial expression which was immediate. It wasn't a puzzled look which would be apparent if he thought he had misheard.

 

[dazzer6666]

I agree the decision is correct, because neither the FA nor Rodriguez's lip reader could see his mouth, because his fingers were in the way. That doesn't make Bong mistaken. One of the lip readers picked up the word garlic, and Bong speaks French, which ties in with the 'stink' accusation. Even if it wasn't the word black, there is still an element of nationalism about it.

The connotations of “your breath stinks” (childish insult but not an offence) are fundamentally different to “you’re black and you stink” (illegal). If they didn’t have sufficient evidence to confirm the latter was said then it’s 100% the right decision.

Bong might have misheard. He might not have. No-one knows. JR is still a prat though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Bizarre. All I'll say then is I hope you never sit on a hearing / jury where you have to be fair and impartial and make a decision based on evidence rather than emotion and what you want to believe.

The panel said the allegation was not proved, not that Bong was mistaken so therefore Rodriguez is not guilty.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Was your friend French or a French speaker? Garlic breath on a British person doesn't have quite the same impact.

French? No. French speaker? No idea. Could Rodriguez have been making a racist / nationalist remark in that context? Yes. Could he have been just making a remark about Bong's breath without it being intended as racist / nationalist? Yes. Only Rodriguez knows for sure. You can either decide that he's liar, he's telling the truth or that you just don't know. There is NO irrefutable evidence.

 

[seagulls4ever]

I agree the decision is correct, because neither the FA nor Rodriguez's lip reader could see his mouth, because his fingers were in the way. That doesn't make Bong mistaken. One of the lip readers picked up the word garlic, and Bong speaks French, which ties in with the 'stink' accusation. Even if it wasn't the word black, there is still an element of nationalism about it.

The decision is correct because there isn't enough evidence to say that it occurred. Of course that doesn't make Bong mistaken. But HJ hasn't said that. Simply, Bong MAY be mistaken, he may have misheard. It's not that hard to mishear things. No one's ever going to know.

And I don't think its right of you to be stating there's an element of nationalism about it with such certainty. First of all, everyone knows garlic is associated with bad breath, and is doesn't necessarily have anything to do with nationalism. Secondly, lip-readers, even professional ones, don't display a high level of accuracy, so the lip reader may themselves have been incorrect.

 

[Hungry Joe]

The panel said the allegation was not proved, not that Bong was mistaken so therefore Rodriguez is not guilty.

Exactly, and Noob doesn't seem too interested in proof but is more interested in claiming, bizarrely, that there is NO possibility that Bong is mistaken.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

French? No. French speaker? No idea. Could Rodriguez have been making a racist / nationalist remark in that context? Yes. Could he have been just making a remark about Bong's breath without it being intended as racist / nationalist? Yes. Only Rodriguez knows for sure. You can either decide that he's liar, he's telling the truth or that you just don't know. There is NO irrefutable evidence.

No, there isn't but you are saying Bong was mistaken whereas the evidence given by three witnesses says Bong repeated his accusation to each and every one of them. Not, I think he said.
You seem to be giving Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt, but not Bong.

 

[NooBHA]

Bizarre. All I'll say then is I hope you never sit on a hearing / jury where you have to be fair and impartial and make a decision based on evidence rather than emotion and what you want to believe.

There is no way that the Manager or anyone connected with Brighton would have followed up on this action unless they accepted and believed Bong's 100% certainty on the issue. And they know the character and person that is GB far better than you or I

 

[Hungry Joe]

No, there isn't but you are saying Bong was mistaken whereas the evidence given by three witnesses says Bong repeated his accusation to each and every one of them. Not, I think he said.
You seem to be giving Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt, but not Bong.

No I am not, I'm saying there is a possibility Bong was mistaken, that's very different. Re-read my posts and you'll find that you are wrong in that summary.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The panel said the allegation was not proved, not that Bong was mistaken so therefore Rodriguez is not guilty.

It also hasn't been said anywhere that Bong wasn't mistaken. There's not enough evidence either way.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Exactly, and Noob doesn't seem too interested in proof but is more interested in claiming, bizarrely, that there is NO possibility that Bong is mistaken.

I agree with him. Rodriguez had his fingers in front of his mouth, so the charge is not proven. The FA said Bong accused him in good faith. They did not say he may have misheard.
Rodriguez didn't give any explanation as to what Bong might have misheard, eg go back which could be misheard as black.

 

[seagulls4ever]

The panel also commented on Bong's facial expression which was immediate. It wasn't a puzzled look which would be apparent if he thought he had misheard.

No, there isn't but you are saying Bong was mistaken whereas the evidence given by three witnesses says Bong repeated his accusation to each and every one of them. Not, I think he said.
You seem to be giving Rodriguez the benefit of the doubt, but not Bong.

You seem to be misunderstanding. Just because Bong is certain he was not mistaken, does not mean he was not mistaken. There's not enough evidence either way. No one's said that Bong thought he had misheard.

 

[dazzer6666]

There is no way that the Manager or anyone connected with Brighton would have followed up on this action unless they accepted and believed Bong's 100% certainty on the issue. And they know the character and person that is GB far better than you or I

Still doesn’t mean Bong might have misheard.

 

[seagulls4ever]

There is no way that the Manager or anyone connected with Brighton would have followed up on this action unless they accepted and believed Bong's 100% certainty on the issue. And they know the character and person that is GB far better than you or I

What has Bong's character got to do with the possibility that he may have misheard?