Yet another piece of UKIP brilliance

[BadFish]

Surely all this needs to be taken within the context of the employments rates of the EU. If everyone is flooding over there to push the indigenous workers out of employment then surely this would show up in the unemployment statistics as a spike in UK unemployment compared to the rest of the EU. From what I can see this doesn't really seem to be the case the employment rate seems to be hovering around (a little over) the EU average but nowhere near as bad as some countries within the EU.

 

[beorhthelm]

Whether you like it or not we need data protection. That given, you seem to miss the point that it is much more efficient and therefore less costly for businesses to deal with one single EU law than the minefield of numerous different rules scattered across the continent. It's simple common sense to have a single law with data in the modern world of communications. As you say, well done EU.

no. the UK already has it perfectly own good data laws, which state whats sensitive and whats not, who repsonsible and what sanctions there are for transgresion. companies are (mostly) shit scared of this law and try their best comply. there not a lot of overhead to doing so, a few Information Officers in a large corp, maybe part of the head of IT/HR in smaller. The EU directive just creates a need to generate activty to be seen to do something about security, whole teams needed to track and write policy to show observasion of the directive is occuring. nothing is actually done, as long as one is seen to be working towards compliance that good enough. you end up with poorer data security. i know that data security is far better in the UK office than most the EU office at my company, because they only need to be seen to be complying. a certain office is being very noisy about data security following events with their nations leader, but we are working on a project where they constant stiffle practical security improvments because they are more interested in going through paper work than applying practice. they are compliant according to EU regs, so thats ok.

point is, law and regulation is good. bureucracy to present a facade of compliane with little application is bad. The EU tends to follow the latter, incurring cost and restricting opportunity for improvment, while not achieve the desired outcomes. the EU is rife with examples of how directives are applied in favour of established interests or are applied in some countries and not others legally. Energy policy is great example where a certain nation has neatly sidesteped having to reduce CO2 emmissions by using a loophole created for industry to the domestic supply, convienetly producing more energy than their industrial needs. meanwhile here in UK we load on a couple hundred £ to bills to pay for subsidies and taxes to be directly compliant with the law.

 

[beorhthelm]

This really isn't anything to do with the EU though is it? This happens the world over just replace Spain and Portugal with India and the like. The search for cheap labour in a global market place effects every developed country around the world.

moving to India is different because there's different legal concerns. you cant move a role that requires access to certain sensitive information to India or other countries. but by law allows movement within the EU... so it does, from UK, Germany, France to elsewhere in the EU where the skills are cheaper. the point is, minimum wage here is a distraction from a bigger larger ppicture of alot of UK employment opportunities as lower wages elsewhere in EU.

 

[BadFish]

moving to India is different because there's different legal concerns. you cant move a role that requires access to certain sensitive information to India or other countries. but by law allows movement within the EU... so it does, from UK, Germany, France to elsewhere in the EU where the skills are cheaper. the point is, minimum wage here is a distraction from a bigger larger ppicture of alot of UK employment opportunities as lower wages elsewhere in EU.

I take your point on this. However this isn't was i was responding to. My response was about Eastern Europeans going to the UK and undercutting locals for the jobs.

 

[pastafarian]

I take your point on this. However this isn't was i was responding to. My response was about Eastern Europeans going to the UK and undercutting locals for the jobs.

slightly off topic,(but only slightly)

I turned up at Mooroopna in the 80`s with a couple of friends to do some pear picking,well actually we got the jobs through some employment thingy called the CES(think thats what it was called).Turns out the CES had been recruiting backpackers like me over Aussies because we worked for less dosh.I wasnt aware of any of this until we turned up to the orchard and the Aussies decided 3 more pommies was too much to add to the other 6 so they all went on strike.

We endured a few hours of foreign scum chants,various racist banter,couple of death threats if i remember and a fairly unpleasant friday afternoon.

Realising we were facing a very hostile crowd of 60+ very angry and very unionised aussies the 9 of us retreated to the pub and did what the English do best,we got exceptionally drunk,then stocked up on lashings of booze from the bottle shop,went back to the camp,barricaded ourselves into the common areas and fought drunken battles with the aussies until dawn.

The place was wrecked and the camping area resembled a napalm strike but at 8am the head Aussie blooded and bruised called off the strike saying we were damn good blokes.

And the moral of the story is.................

 

[BadFish]

slightly off topic,(but only slightly)

I turned up at Mooroopna in the 80`s with a couple of friends to do some pear picking,well actually we got the jobs through some employment thingy called the CES(think thats what it was called).Turns out the CES had been recruiting backpackers like me over Aussies because we worked for less dosh.I wasnt aware of any of this until we turned up to the orchard and the Aussies decided 3 more pommies was too much to add to the other 6 so they all went on strike.

We endured a few hours of foreign scum chants,various racist banter,couple of death threats if i remember and a fairly unpleasant friday afternoon.

Realising we were facing a very hostile crowd of 60+ very angry and very unionised aussies the 9 of us retreated to the pub and did what the English do best,we got exceptionally drunk,then stocked up on lashings of booze from the bottle shop,went back to the camp,barricaded ourselves into the common areas and fought drunken battles with the aussies until dawn.

The place was wrecked and the camping area resembled a napalm strike but at 8am the head Aussie blooded and bruised called off the strike saying we were damn good blokes.

And the moral of the story is.................

No idea apart from that things aren't much different over here to over there. The same discussions and arguments about foreign labour are going on as we speak all over the world.

 

[brighton bluenose]

Spot on el pres, I don't know where we'd be without the plethora of media studies, travel and tourism and film studies graduates of the last 15 years.

Many many of whom now find that there just aren't any jobs in such subjects!

 

[pastafarian]

No idea apart from that things aren't much different over here to over there. The same discussions and arguments about foreign labour are going on as we speak all over the world.

Probably the whole world yes except surprisingly in the UK
the anti UKIP brigade over here say its not an issue.

I chose not to employ non British people in my business because i simply wanted a local person working for me,i wanted someone who was entrenched in the area as opposed to someone who would be more transient and likely to leave if a better opportunity arose.

I could have easily replaced all my staff with Eastern Europeans ten times over considering how many of them were asking for work and payed them less than i pay the locals.

I havnt done that but i cant blame the thousands of businesses that have done this,money talks ......that is the bottom line.

meanwhile.......

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Whether you like it or not we need data protection. That given, you seem to miss the point that it is much more efficient and therefore less costly for businesses to deal with one single EU law than the minefield of numerous different rules scattered across the continent. It's simple common sense to have a single law with data in the modern world of communications. As you say, well done EU.

And yet there isn't a single data law for the whole of the EU. Every country has enacted a law but none are the same. Fro example you can't have encrypted data in France unless you're willing for the government to have access to the keys. The British government is so concerned by this that in many of it's contracts with it's suppliers it actively bans them from holding any data outside the UK boarders and it isn't just the type of data you'd imagine like defence or security services stuff it is mundane stuff like TfL fine data etc. Capita found out this to their cost when they wanted to move large parts of their operations to Poland ( and indeed India ) only for the government to block it.

 

[pastafarian]

According to a Nat West report in 2012, it was believed there were 4.6 million British people living and working abroad. According to the Daily Mail the number of foreign workers in Britain totals 2.4 million.

So we all benefit from migration. We live in a transient world. It's life now.

Explain the benefits of migration with regards to the UK in less than 250 words,give reasons and show workings why Education,Housing and Medical care benefit from increased immigration.

extra points will be awarded if you can find the benefits of the numbers of migrants arriving or leaving not being correlated

 

[brighton bluenose]

I work in higher education, an industry which has a global reputation for a high quality service, and is one of the biggest exporters in the country, contributing £14bn a year to the economy.

UKIP's policies would wipe out most of this benefit by preventing/discouraging overseas students from attending UK universities.

Could a UKIP supporter explain the benefits of such a policy to someone such as myself, who would probably lose my job (80% of the students I teach are international).

The current government has made things difficult enough, UKIP would extend this disadvantage by making it even more difficult for overseas students to attend higher education in the UK.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ng-english-universities-how-ruin-global-brand

Of course there are no 'benefits' but stopping international students coming to the UK is NOT a UKIP policy is it?!

 

[pastafarian]

Of course there are no 'benefits' but stopping international students coming to the UK is NOT a UKIP policy is it?!

ssshhhh! christ almighty chap dont tell the anti UKIP brigade that.......let them have their false facts!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-farage-racism-lenny-henry-politics-europe

 

[brighton bluenose]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/27/ukip-farage-racism-lenny-henry-politics-europe

The vast majority of the British people wont give a flying f*** about what is in the Grauniad and what it says about UKIP!

They WILL be more concerned by the fact that many elected MP's have worked the system - to put it mildly - to rip off the British taxpayer over-claiming on expenses to the extent that several have ended up in prison!!

 

[Nibble]

Labour have already done your top three quotes so what does that make them or you even if you support them

You assume too much, the downfall of many a keyboard smartarse on here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yet more racist Tweets, emails and comment in the press today from UKIP councilors and more examples of members hiring cheap foreign labour. I'm embarrassed these clowns have been voted in. Embarrassed we have a party with seemingly no vetting process which allows any idiot to stand (I have heard some interesting stories about thick UKIP councillors seemingly unable to understand town planning meetings) and more so the idiots who vote for these hypocrites.

 

[cunning fergus]

Yet more racist Tweets, emails and comment in the press today from UKIP councilors and more examples of members hiring cheap foreign labour. I'm embarrassed these clowns have been voted in. Embarrassed we have a party with seemingly no vetting process which allows any idiot to stand (I have heard some interesting stories about thick UKIP councillors seemingly unable to understand town planning meetings) and more so the idiots who vote for these hypocrites.

The question you surely need to be asking is, why, despite the recently reported instances of UKIP failures and their own capacity for self destruction their polling ratings continue to rise?

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/?CMP=INTstp2

This is surely a consequence of the current levels of contempt a significant proportion of the electorate has with the main parties, and their own particular failings, which collectively include their inability to persuade the electorate of the benefits of their policies regarding Europe. Let's be honest this is not a dynamic limited to British politics.

Nonetheless, and talking as an old school socialist, I may not agree with you on many political matters, however the fact is that UKIPs popularity is a symptom of political failure elsewhere in the UK and until the media, political commentators and most importantly mainstream politicians stop playing the man instead of the ball, there should be no indignant shock associated with the relative success of UKIP.

It's that simple.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

All the mudslinging isn't having much effect because we know the other political parties have skeletons in their cupboards too and these revelations are being kept in reserve until it suits the media to dish it out.

 

[cunning fergus]

All the mudslinging isn't having much effect because we know the other political parties have skeletons in their cupboards too and these revelations are being kept in reserve until it suits the media to dish it out.

I think it is even more fundamental, the one advantage Farage has on all his rivals is that he has not lied or deceived the electorate in the past.

He may of course be cut from the same cloth as other politicians, however he is getting the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

In the eyes of much of the public, Politicians who seek to expose him as a fraud are just being hypocritical, moreover it can seem indicative of the political elite squirming as their destinies now seem uncertain.

I suspect those who have had their wages compromised by the imposition of an unrestricted labour market may well be enjoying the spectacle too..............long may it continue.

 

[Irish_Seagull]

European politics and the media empires that support it are corrupt to the core

It is not that ukip are not what they seem, the problem is people support them because they believe they are the only option

Not many people would trust mr farage to babysit their kids for a week yet most that would vote ukip would have him run the nation without any questions

These people are near or mostly millionaires with little or no love for the uk, it's people or it's national cultures.

They serve their financial backers and obey whomever their handlers are

They are not patriots, none of them.

As it stands the uk state is engaged in various coups financing and arming jihadis, protecting corrupt bankers and orchestrating yet another illegal annexation with the USA regime

Promoting farage as an archetypal Robin Hood is ridiculous the man is far from being a nationalist. Whatever he once was he is not now.

Eu members of parliament have no powers of legislation, Power lies in the unnamed unelected commission members

If you vote ukip as some kind of stupid statement meaning you wish to leave the eu, then your waisting a vote

Inform yourself, ukip have no power, they can never remove the uk from the eu or stop eu law super ceding British law

That part or their cause is a big hoax, none of the uk parties plan on leaving the EU.