Yet another piece of UKIP brilliance

[Deleted member 22389]

Amen to this.

UkIP are certainly mixing up the political spectrum,the thing that baffles me the most is why the major parties are not asking questions as to why this is occurring,all we are hearing is smear and debunking(justified in the cases of the UKIP loons). There seems to be a real case of politicians burying their heads in the sand..."dont worry about it,they are all lunatics and racists".
Posters like nibble and tubthumper are much the same,casting them as the panto villian who are simply racist. I have a strong suspicion UKIP will do very well at the Euro elections.
Much of it will be down to their grass roots supporters and much will be down to the people who want a voice and are digging their heels in against the thinking of people like nibble and tubthumper who want everyone to shut up if they dont fit in with their way of thinking.

I will tell you why the main parties are not asking the obvious questions, they are too politically correct. Far too many silly people who get offended. Probably the same type of people who got uptight about Jeremy Clarkson calling his dog Didier Dogba. Far from helping the situation they are actually making the situation worse. Funny thing is I have spoken to plenty of foreigners over the years, and they all say the same things, what exactly has happened to Great Britain, why can't British people say what they want in their own country anymore?

Silly words like Bigot, Xenophobic, Islmaphobic, Nazi only seem to apply to British people from these name callers, but for some reason they don't apply to foreigners who might share the same opinions on immigration, integration and yes I have met them.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I work in higher education, an industry which has a global reputation for a high quality service, and is one of the biggest exporters in the country, contributing £14bn a year to the economy.

UKIP's policies would wipe out most of this benefit by preventing/discouraging overseas students from attending UK universities.

Could a UKIP supporter explain the benefits of such a policy to someone such as myself, who would probably lose my job (80% of the students I teach are international).

The current government has made things difficult enough, UKIP would extend this disadvantage by making it even more difficult for overseas students to attend higher education in the UK.

http://www.economist.com/news/brita...ng-english-universities-how-ruin-global-brand

The industry I work in benefits hugely from EU membership from the competitiveness brought about by regulation through to the 30 billion in EU sector exports. The UK is very good in my field and this would be destroyed if UKIP had power of we left the EU due to other reasons.

In a number of ways I have first hand experience of the myriad benefits of EU membership; it will take something special to make me feel negative about UK involvement . I just wish others would see beyond a few economic migrants and see the bigger picture.

 

[BadFish]

The industry I work in benefits hugely from EU membership from the competitiveness brought about by regulation through to the 30 billion in EU sector exports. The UK is very good in my field and this would be destroyed if UKIP had power of we left the EU due to other reasons.

In a number of ways I have first hand experience of the myriad benefits of EU membership; it will take something special to make me feel negative about UK involvement . I just wish others would see beyond a few economic migrants and see the bigger picture.

Trouble is those economic migrants are constantly forced down peoples throats as what the EU is all about. It is a tactic that seems to be working and one that put the benefits you mention into the shadows. People will swallow it hook line and sinker everytime.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

The industry I work in benefits hugely from EU membership from the competitiveness brought about by regulation through to the 30 billion in EU sector exports. The UK is very good in my field and this would be destroyed if UKIP had power of we left the EU due to other reasons.

In a number of ways I have first hand experience of the myriad benefits of EU membership; it will take something special to make me feel negative about UK involvement . I just wish others would see beyond a few economic migrants and see the bigger picture.

Sure. Same with my business too. Exporting throughout Europe is so much easier when compared to elsewhere. I certainly don't want us to leave.

BUT there are some major faults with the EU too and the transferring of too many law making powers to Brussels combined with the British working class man having their wages squeezed by cheap labour.

People need to look at the bigger picture, and realise whilst the EU is a good idea, it's far from perfect, and certain parts of it need a major overhaul.

 

[BadFish]

Sure. Same with my business too. Exporting throughout Europe is so much easier when compared to elsewhere. I certainly don't want us to leave.

BUT there are some major faults with the EU too and the transferring of too many law making powers to Brussels combined with the British working class man having their wages squeezed by cheap labour.

People need to look at the bigger picture, and realise whilst the EU is a good idea, it's far from perfect, and certain parts of it need a major overhaul.

Surely the result of the cheap labour is more about companies breaking the law and employing people below the minimum wage and a problem with the EU directives. Maybe toughening up on those companies and ensuring they pay a decent wage and offer the correct benefits. Thus providing a level playing field for all the competitors in the job market so those prepared to work for a pittance no long have that option.

 

[cunning fergus]

The industry I work in benefits hugely from EU membership from the competitiveness brought about by regulation through to the 30 billion in EU sector exports. The UK is very good in my field and this would be destroyed if UKIP had power of we left the EU due to other reasons.

In a number of ways I have first hand experience of the myriad benefits of EU membership; it will take something special to make me feel negative about UK involvement . I just wish others would see beyond a few economic migrants and see the bigger picture.

Whereas the industry I work in has been forced to increase its fees/costs to accommodate more burdensome legislation to such an extent that it is actually preventing competition as some in the market cannot continue to operate and so withdraw. The company I work for has to take a very serious look at whether we continue in some product areas as our "low cost" approach is unsustainable, if we withdraw we will then reduce our staff levels. Purely as a consequence of legislation from the EU.

The volume of regulation is staggering and continues unabated, I have been watching the car crash of the EU Data Protection Regulation over the last couple of years and despite the EU Commission breaking its own rules to get it before the EU Parliament it is now passed.

Whilst there is a laudable motive behind this Regulation (note, unlike a directive this law does not need any UK Parliament Approval) this will have consequences for us all, for small and medium size companies in particular.

As above in the fullness of time this will increase costs and reduce competition. I suspect that will not worry the large global multinationals who can absorb costs more effectively..........viva capitalism.

http://www.iabuk.net/about/press/archive/eu-vote-on-data-protection-proposal-a-missed-opportunity

 

[WATFORD zero]

The business that i have an interest in would be changed beyond all recognition if UKIP got in.

The workers in the business consist of 12 British, 5 Spanish, 2 Irish, Dutch, Polish, Congalese, Argentinian, Danish and Slovakian, along with a management team that has a few Spaniards,

So i have to hope that people put a little thought into how they vote at an election

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Whereas the industry I work in has been forced to increase its fees/costs to accommodate more burdensome legislation to such an extent that it is actually preventing competition as some in the market cannot continue to operate and so withdraw. The company I work for has to take a very serious look at whether we continue in some product areas as our "low cost" approach is unsustainable, if we withdraw we will then reduce our staff levels. Purely as a consequence of legislation from the EU.

The volume of regulation is staggering and continues unabated, I have been watching the car crash of the EU Data Protection Regulation over the last couple of years and despite the EU Commission breaking its own rules to get it before the EU Parliament it is now passed.

Whilst there is a laudable motive behind this Regulation (note, unlike a directive this law does not need any UK Parliament Approval) this will have consequences for us all, for small and medium size companies in particular.

As above in the fullness of time this will increase costs and reduce competition. I suspect that will not worry the large global multinationals who can absorb costs more effectively..........viva capitalism.

http://www.iabuk.net/about/press/archive/eu-vote-on-data-protection-proposal-a-missed-opportunity

Interesting discussion. You say "some in the market" cannot continue due to new and burdensome legislation? But others obviously can. Maybe the "some" are the dead wood in your industry which needs replacing?

You say you have had to increase your fees to cover the legislation? Most businesses have to cover an increase of some nature; the smarter more nimble businesses adapt and survive. Do you bleat if the price of your other raw materials goes up? Who do you blame for this? I do not believe most regulations are made up for fun to punish you.....

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Surely the result of the cheap labour is more about companies breaking the law and employing people below the minimum wage and a problem with the EU directives. Maybe toughening up on those companies and ensuring they pay a decent wage and offer the correct benefits. Thus providing a level playing field for all the competitors in the job market so those prepared to work for a pittance no long have that option.

No, incorrect.

It's not about minimum wage, it's about tradesman consistently being undercut by guys who are prepared to leave their homelands, live four to a room and don't have the same living costs.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Sure. Same with my business too. Exporting throughout Europe is so much easier when compared to elsewhere. I certainly don't want us to leave.

BUT there are some major faults with the EU too and the transferring of too many law making powers to Brussels combined with the British working class man having their wages squeezed by cheap labour.

People need to look at the bigger picture, and realise whilst the EU is a good idea, it's far from perfect, and certain parts of it need a major overhaul.

What do you mean by major overhaul? If you're in you have to abide by the 4 basic freedom of movement items which are capital, labour, goods and services. You cannot cherry pick as these are the basics. If there is an issue with cheap labour as you suggest then maybe raise the minimum wage? I actually advocate raising this so the working man gets a decent living wage.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No, incorrect.

It's not about minimum wage, it's about tradesman consistently being undercut by guys who are prepared to leave their homelands, live four to a room and don't have the same living costs.

A rigorously enforced minimum wage means no one can undercut though. The job then becomes a competition of who is best. Surely a good thing as standards are raised and the punter gets a quality tradesman.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Surely the result of the cheap labour is more about companies breaking the law and employing people below the minimum wage and a problem with the EU directives. Maybe toughening up on those companies and ensuring they pay a decent wage and offer the correct benefits. Thus providing a level playing field for all the competitors in the job market so those prepared to work for a pittance no long have that option.

Correct.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Surely the result of the cheap labour is more about companies breaking the law and employing people below the minimum wage and a problem with the EU directives. Maybe toughening up on those companies and ensuring they pay a decent wage and offer the correct benefits. Thus providing a level playing field for all the competitors in the job market so those prepared to work for a pittance no long have that option.

Is absolutely 100% correct.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Is absolutely 100% correct.

It's so blindingly obvious as well.

 

[cunning fergus]

Interesting discussion. You say "some in the market" cannot continue due to new and burdensome legislation? But others obviously can. Maybe the "some" are the dead wood in your industry which needs replacing?

You say you have had to increase your fees to cover the legislation? Most businesses have to cover an increase of some nature; the smarter more nimble businesses adapt and survive. Do you bleat if the price of your other raw materials goes up? Who do you blame for this? I do not believe most regulations are made up for fun to punish you.....

Maybe these firms are dead wood, however making previously sustainable business models unsustainable because of regulation is hardly market forces in action.

As a general point, adding layers of regulation which increase the costs of doing any type of business mean that it is harder for smaller businesses in particular, and not least firms attempting to enter markets. Great news for large established multinationals, not so great for smaller businesses.

In any event there is an undoubted cost to business as a consequence of EU regulation........

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/21/eu-uk-regulation_n_4135617.html

I don't think regulations are developed to punish anyone, however instead of oiling the wheels of business regulations can do the opposite, the new data protection regulation being a case in point. This will be a new burden for all firms, and there are other unintended consequences too........

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...-may-shut-down-vital-research-and-cost-lives/

Sickening isn't it, bloody charities bleating about restrictive EU regulations.

 

[Beach Hut]

My company would disintegrate in UK if UKIP came in to power, more interestingly our HR is now outsourced to India who apparently do not comply to the Data Protection Act so I am expecting a lot of Nigerean friends very soon with some tempting offers.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe these firms are dead wood, however making previously sustainable business models unsustainable because of regulation is hardly market forces in action.

As a general point, adding layers of regulation which increase the costs of doing any type of business mean that it is harder for smaller businesses in particular, and not least firms attempting to enter markets. Great news for large established multinationals, not so great for smaller businesses.

In any event there is an undoubted cost to business as a consequence of EU regulation........

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/10/21/eu-uk-regulation_n_4135617.html

I don't think regulations are developed to punish anyone, however instead of oiling the wheels of business regulations can do the opposite, the new data protection regulation being a case in point. This will be a new burden for all firms, and there are other unintended consequences too........

http://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk...-may-shut-down-vital-research-and-cost-lives/

Sickening isn't it, bloody charities bleating about restrictive EU regulations.

Data protection is a relatively recent idea and therefore legislation will be new. It needs to be consistent across countries so it needs to be a EU directive. And it has to be in place; no doubt about it. And you seem to only be thinking of how this affects the economy. Data protection is in place to protect both business and individuals and in the case of the Cancer Research case you highlight very vulnerable people. It's new, and needs to be in place and is here to stay whether you agree with it or not. I'm very much aware of this ruling, in fact I took some training in it recently.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Maybe these firms are dead wood, however making previously sustainable business models unsustainable because of regulation is hardly market forces in action.

Businesses have to move with the times. If they chose to use data then they have to adhere to the rules. As an aside I don't think your example is a good one because most people can surely see the requirement for data protection in the modern world?

 

[cunning fergus]

A rigorously enforced minimum wage means no one can undercut though. The job then becomes a competition of who is best. Surely a good thing as standards are raised and the punter gets a quality tradesman.

The fact we need a minimum wage at all is indicative of a catastrophic failure to manage our labour market, the capitalists have won.

These arguments about how much it should be and punishing the companies that employ cheap labour miss the point by a country mile.

The first time this country imposed restrictions on pay was just after the plague, when the working population was reduced by 30-40%. Never were the workers more powerful and able to name their price, moving from landowner to landowner who were desperate for workers to collect harvests etc.

How did the establishment react to this new development in worker power?

They imposed a MAXIMUM wage fixed at pre plague levels and restricted free movement, under the Statute of Labourers act.

So, what does this lesson teach us.............if you want to improve workers rights, control your labour market.

Anyone who argues otherwise is a Tory.

 

[beorhthelm]

Surely the result of the cheap labour is more about companies breaking the law and employing people below the minimum wage and a problem with the EU directives. Maybe toughening up on those companies and ensuring they pay a decent wage and offer the correct benefits. Thus providing a level playing field for all the competitors in the job market so those prepared to work for a pittance no long have that option.

at an EU level the cost of labour is more complex than minimum wages, especially as they can differ. its not just low skilled coming here to take the low end manual roles, there's the skilled roles that are moving out of the UK to where skills are cheaper. companies outsource office work to say Spain or Poland where the (non-minimum) wage costs are a fraction of what they are here. my compny is recruiting lots of programmers and data analysts, with virtually none of the positions coming to UK offices (only really senior management gets recruited here now).