[Politics] Will Brexit Actually Happen

[biddles911]

I’m increasingly of the opinion that we’ll either end staying in the EU (probably on worse terms) or leave with no deal at all as the incompetence of the Government and contradictions of our red lines (e.g. Irish border, which has now become absolutely key due to the power of the DUP) play out against the EU position.

The EU has consistently stated that they will not even consider our desire for a bespoke pick and mix deal of the type we appear to want and I cannot see that we have sufficient negotiating leverage to move them significantly from this stance.




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[worthingseagull123]

Exactly. Once my generation (of which I am heartily ashamed) is out of the way, sensible people will take us back into the EU, although on worse terms than the ones we enjoy at the moment. This will all have been a colossal waste of time, money and angst.

Let's hope that what happens between then and now isn't too destructive, but I fear that the Irish border will become a hard one whatever happens. Most likely is that we start with a soft border but that so many illegal immigrants stroll through it that the extreme right wing of the Tories will demand a fence and checkpoints.

Ashamed?

Are you for real?

This whole cheerleading for the EU is embarrasing.

 

[Withdean and I]

I think it will be OUT but the half half scarf type OUT which I think would actually reflect the overall voting in the referendum (ie nearly half the voters wanted to remain but just over half the voters wanted to leave). There was never any real detail given before the referendum of what Brexit would actually look like other than that we would leave the EU. So that we must do to meet what the people voted for. However I think most reasonable people would also agree that we still need to cooperate and trade with the EU so a sensible way of doing that should also be found.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The sensible option is to remain in the trade zone and customs union. And I hope the Labour Party position themselves as a customs union party. For 1), it’s the sensible approach as the UK will need to trade with the EU. 2), Labour positioning themselves like this will cause absolute havoc with the Tory party and split it right down the middle for all to see......that will be a joy to watch.

 

[worthingseagull123]

The sensible option is to remain in the trade zone and customs union. And I hope the Labour Party position themselves as a customs union party. For 1), it’s the sensible approach as the UK will need to trade with the EU. 2), Labour positioning themselves like this will cause absolute havoc with the Tory party and split it right down the middle for all to see......that will be a joy to watch.

Unfortunately that would mean freedom of movement?

I assume Brexit occurred owing to uncontrolled EU migration to the UK. Will not keep people happy.

 

[biddles911]

Unfortunately that would mean freedom of movement?

I assume Brexit occurred owing to uncontrolled EU migration to the UK. Will not keep people happy.

Don’t think being in the customs union implies freedom of movement; that’s a consequence of being in the single market BUT it would mean we can’t do our own trade deals.

Interesting to find out what the many Brexiteers on these threads regard as their own red lines and the likelihood of actually achieving them?

Can’t see any Brexiteers being happy with the likely final outcome?


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[daveinprague]

Ashamed?

Are you for real?

This whole cheerleading for the EU is embarrasing.

The cheerleading for jumping off a cliff with no idea what will happen is alarming. Jumping off a cliff usually only has one outcome though.

 

[cunning fergus]

The sensible option is to remain in the trade zone and customs union. And I hope the Labour Party position themselves as a customs union party. For 1), it’s the sensible approach as the UK will need to trade with the EU. 2), Labour positioning themselves like this will cause absolute havoc with the Tory party and split it right down the middle for all to see......that will be a joy to watch.

You must be hoping for a change in leader of the Labour Party then. Jezza has not changed his political spots (yet) and he knows full well that keeping the country tied to the Capitalist cabal (by customs union or otherwise) will not allow Jezza to deploy his genuine socialist agenda. To quote the man himself:

"The Treaty on European Union takes away from national Parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers"

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/oliver-huitson/jeremy-corbyn-eu_b_9689982.html

You and others delusion on Jezza’s views on the EU is kinda cute......it’s also off the scale hatstand naivety of course, but you know that.

Awwww Bless.

 

[cunning fergus]

Don’t think being in the customs union implies freedom of movement; that’s a consequence of being in the single market BUT it would mean we can’t do our own trade deals.

Interesting to find out what the many Brexiteers on these threads regard as their own red lines and the likelihood of actually achieving them?

Can’t see any Brexiteers being happy with the likely final outcome?


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I think many Brexiters have a view that UK Politicians should be accountable for the policies of the country.

If UK politicians want to advocate open borders, fine let them, and we’ll see how popular the policy is.

Amongst its many faults the way the EU has been allowed (by politicians of all flavours) to create an unhealthy democratic distance between national electorates and the nucleus of where policies such as freedom of movement is decided.

This is not by accident, it’s why all the major U.K. political parties (bar 1) side with it.

So, not a red line, just normal honest to goodness democracy as we have had in the past.

 

[worthingseagull123]

The cheerleading for jumping off a cliff with no idea what will happen is alarming. Jumping off a cliff usually only has one outcome though.

That is a pretty moronic analogy.

Did you read it online somewhere and decide to use it for yourself?

 

[daveinprague]

That is a pretty moronic analogy.

Did you read it online somewhere and decide to use it for yourself?

No I didnt.
Ok, What does the future hold for the UK post Brexit. Any idea? I mean, seriously, any idea. If you do know, you better start telling people, otherwise, its akin to jumping off a cliff into the unknown, and jumping off cliffs into the unknown usually follows a pattern.

 

[cunning fergus]

No I didnt.
Ok, What does the future hold for the UK post Brexit. Any idea? I mean, seriously, any idea. If you do know, you better start telling people, otherwise, its akin to jumping off a cliff into the unknown, and jumping off cliffs into the unknown usually follows a pattern.

Under the leadership of a genuine socialist like Jezza, in a post Brexit UK we will see the breaking of the dominance and influence of the City of London and all the incumbent fat cats. Jezza knows this goal will be easier to achieve out the EU to facilitate his policy of re-nationalisation and hopefully restoring clause 4.

People need to understand what side they are on.

Rejoice......socialism is coming.

 

[beorhthelm]

The sensible option is to remain in the trade zone and customs union. And I hope the Labour Party position themselves as a customs union party. For 1), it’s the sensible approach as the UK will need to trade with the EU. 2), Labour positioning themselves like this will cause absolute havoc with the Tory party and split it right down the middle for all to see......that will be a joy to watch.

agree its a position sensible for Labour and to cause trouble. its not that different to the current government position. its all in the semantics, Labour want "a" customs union, government want a trade deal. difference between a customs union and trade deal? pretty much in the presentation, scope and rules, a customs union is a form of trade deal. Labour's position has the same flaw as the government, there's no detail of what it means and needs the EU to agree.

interesting the single market isnt mentioned by Labour, i dont know if thats deliberate to avoid it or to keep the discussion simple. you do not need to have a single market to have a customs union/trade deal, this has only ever been a political insistance from those wanting us to remain all in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You must be hoping for a change in leader of the Labour Party then. Jezza has not changed his political spots (yet) and he knows full well that keeping the country tied to the Capitalist cabal (by customs union or otherwise) will not allow Jezza to deploy his genuine socialist agenda. To quote the man himself:

"The Treaty on European Union takes away from national Parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers"

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/oliver-huitson/jeremy-corbyn-eu_b_9689982.html

You and others delusion on Jezza’s views on the EU is kinda cute......it’s also off the scale hatstand naivety of course, but you know that.

Awwww Bless.

I’m under no illusions about Corbyn. But let’s wait and see where the Labour Party, not Corbyn, position themselves; you’ll find out on Monday. Maybe the desire to rip apart the Tory party in a very public way and isolate the far-right of their party will prove too tempting. As I said, that will be brilliant to watch and much fun

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I’m under no illusions about Corbyn. But let’s wait and see where the Labour Party, not Corbyn, position themselves; you’ll find out on Monday. Maybe the desire to rip apart the Tory party in a very public way and isolate the far-right of their party will prove too tempting. As I said, that will be brilliant to watch and much fun

Tories far-right?

 

[maltaseagull]

Of course it will happen, the public voted it and if it doesn't we will see the people taking their borders back, as it's pretty obvious as to the strength of feeling about it. I may even build a wall.

Massive feeling? What was it 4%?

 

[maltaseagull]

Under the leadership of a genuine socialist like Jezza, in a post Brexit UK we will see the breaking of the dominance and influence of the City of London and all the incumbent fat cats. Jezza knows this goal will be easier to achieve out the EU to facilitate his policy of re-nationalisation and hopefully restoring clause 4.

People need to understand what side they are on.

Rejoice......socialism is coming.

Any idea how much the city of London financial district contributes to the UK economy as opposed to manufacturing?

So pleased I am not living in the UK where the choices are May or Corbyn.
Here, I have no vote but the choices are just as bad as both sides are totally corrupt.

In my opinion the best example of democracy is Switzerland.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

What would the remoaners give for an extra 8% to clear a 4% majority, quite a bit i suspect.

Anyway you do release we have a far more important things on at the mo!

 

[AmexRuislip]

Any idea how much the city of London financial district contributes to the UK economy as opposed to manufacturing?

So pleased I am not living in the UK where the choices are May or Corbyn.
Here, I have no vote but the choices are just as bad as both sides are totally corrupt.

In my opinion the best example of democracy is Switzerland.

https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/bus...nd-information/Pages/economic-statistics.aspx

 

[Deleted member 2719]

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