Why a new manager will bring immediate change

[British Bulldog]

In an ideal world Sami will turn this around and there will be no need to go down the road of changing manager, but unless he's prepared to start being a bit more flexible in his tactics to try and grind out some better results then I can see that being the only choice before long.

 

[Brighton Breezy]

There is an argument to say that results will tend to improve because, for a manager to be sacked in the first place, the team is genuinely at its lowest ebb when any sort of result looks like an improvement.

 

[keaton]

I accept that discussing teams performance is part of what fans do, but I just feel that your own unqualified view on tactics and you insistence that you have sussed it and the coaching staff have missed it, a little naive/arrogant.

But Sami has no experience of managing in England or of managerial success but thinks he knows better than Gus or Garcia (or any other manager in the league).despite the success they achieved. Does not that make Sami naïve/arrogant?

 

[KZNSeagull]

Soccernomics:

"Warwick Business schools analysed sackings from 1992 to 2008 in the Premier League and found that there is a boost for a short honeymoon period. The short honeymoon period is easy to explain - the average club earns 1.3 points per game and typically sack their manager when it averages only 1 point per game - a low point. Any statistician can predict what should happen after a low point whether or not the club sacks its manager, or changes its brand of teacakes - its performance will regress to the mean. Simply put, from a very low point, you are always likely to improve"

"Whatever the reason for hitting a low, things will almost inevitably improve afterwards. The new manager rarely causes the pendulum to swing - he's just the beneficiary. Perhaps some players do briefly work harder to impress him, but on that logic clubs should sack managers even more often".

Make of that what you will.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I posted quite a passive post saying we cannot really know whether Hyppia is good or not, even our current league position doesnt necessarily give us that answer, thats all.

Your response seemed to imply I hadn't read your posts, which I hadnt, but my post wasnt in response to you anyway.

But for the record I say again that its unlikely that you have found the flaw in our play whilst our current staff havent, so you fill your boots concerning tactics but please accept that I am not going to take you too seriously.

No you didn't, it wasn't passive at all, you basically said that 'when will fans learn' - as if anyone commenting on our tactics, manager or performance are somehow wrong and need to learn something you seem to think you know already.

You then go on to give your own cliched assessment that doesn't really say anything.

If you're not taking me seriously, which is fine I'm not bothered by that, what in your opinion is going wrong? Or are you really so passive that you can't bring yourself to question tactics, the players, performance? Who ultimately chose the manager, and will decide his fate? Oh, another person unqualified in football matters who you probably wouldn't take seriously either...

 

[father_and_son]

Here is a quote I thought quite relevant to us at the moment from the secret footballers book;

‘There can be an immediate turnaround in fortunes for a club that changes its manager. I won’t say that tactics have nothing to do with it but when I hear a pundit say something like, “He’s got them organised” , in reference to a teams improved results, I cringe. Often it has little to do with the hours spent on the training pitch and more to do with the players trying that much harder.

The indifferent form a team has shown previously can sometimes be put down to the fact that the players have become so comfortable with the manager that they ease off mentally and physically.’


I believe that a new manager would bring a lift to the players the fans and the whole club in general hopefully allowing us to change things around for the second half of the season before its too late.

This is quite a common phenomenon - almost everyone tries a little bit harder when a new boss turns up. All your assumed status is put in doubt and you might lose your position as "golden boy" or the golden boy position becomes vacant. There are some people who always put in 100% effort and just can't raise their game any further, but they are few and far between.

You don't need a new manager to do this but it will almost always happen when there is one. Certain members of a squad could do with a little wake up call and be shown their regular position in the squad should not be taken for granted... just to keep them trying their best.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

I don't buy that argument I'm afraid. If the players aren't putting in the effort, that's down to them.

Sami certainly hasn't been great, but he's young and learning. I think like Gus, he wants to play one way and you've got to admire his stubbornness in the face of such bad results. He believes his system works and that the players just need to adapt to it.

I think we're good enough. I think the players are learning a totally new system which could be utterly devastating to the opposition if we get it right. There have been glimmers of brilliance for 10-20 minute periods here and there where we've honestly looked better than I've seen us in a long time. We just needed our strikers to put the ball in the back of the net.

There have also been periods where heads have dropped, shoulders have been shrugged and the team have looked like they've given up when it's not working. That part has to change.

I think this season Sami will stay, we'll finish mid-table, then next season we will push on and finish top 4.

Under Hyypia we will never make the play offs. Willing to have a small wager on it?

 

[father_and_son]

Soccernomics:

"Warwick Business schools analysed sackings from 1992 to 2008 in the Premier League and found that there is a boost for a short honeymoon period. The short honeymoon period is easy to explain - the average club earns 1.3 points per game and typically sack their manager when it averages only 1 point per game - a low point. Any statistician can predict what should happen after a low point whether or not the club sacks its manager, or changes its brand of teacakes - its performance will regress to the mean. Simply put, from a very low point, you are always likely to improve"

"Whatever the reason for hitting a low, things will almost inevitably improve afterwards. The new manager rarely causes the pendulum to swing - he's just the beneficiary. Perhaps some players do briefly work harder to impress him, but on that logic clubs should sack managers even more often".

Make of that what you will.

A very similar argument stands when you discuss faith healers, new age healers and other quacks and quackery. You go when you are really ill (usually just after your lowest ebb actually) and, statistically speaking, your health would have improved from that point anyway, even if you'd gone to see a plumber! Attributing the benefits to the faith healer just demonstrates a lack of understanding of statistics, human nature and medicine.

[I drive my partner crazy because I follow the same logic with fully qualified doctors and carefully researched medicine... when I reach the point where going to the doctor seems necessary, I know I'm past the worst of it and so don't need to see a doctor! My faith in statistics will kill me in the end!]

 

[Mellotron]

I don't buy that argument I'm afraid. If the players aren't putting in the effort, that's down to them.

Sami certainly hasn't been great, but he's young and learning. I think like Gus, he wants to play one way and you've got to admire his stubbornness in the face of such bad results. He believes his system works and that the players just need to adapt to it.

I think we're good enough. I think the players are learning a totally new system which could be utterly devastating to the opposition if we get it right. There have been glimmers of brilliance for 10-20 minute periods here and there where we've honestly looked better than I've seen us in a long time. We just needed our strikers to put the ball in the back of the net.

There have also been periods where heads have dropped, shoulders have been shrugged and the team have looked like they've given up when it's not working. That part has to change.

I think this season Sami will stay, we'll finish mid-table, then next season we will push on and finish top 4.

I'm convinced by what Sami wants to do in an attacking sense and in terms of creating chances, but not how exposed we are at the back. His system - even done right - still leaves us INCREDIBLY vulnerable to counter attacks. Too risky for me.

 

[BigGully]

No you didn't, it wasn't passive at all, you basically said that 'when will fans learn' - as if anyone commenting on our tactics, manager or performance are somehow wrong and need to learn something you seem to think you know already.

You then go on to give your own cliched assessment that doesn't really say anything.

If you're not taking me seriously, which is fine I'm not bothered by that, what in your opinion is going wrong? Or are you really so passive that you can't bring yourself to question tactics, the players, performance? Who ultimately chose the manager, and will decide his fate? Oh, another person unqualified in football matters who you probably wouldn't take seriously either...

That is about it, I dont fall into hysteria when we are winning or become morose and too critical when we lose a few, it is true I am no longer a demonstrative fan, I miss that.

However you neednt get upset if I do not take your views on the game seriously, its just that I suspect there is no reason to suspect you have any idea, certainly above our current manager.

I assume work is being done behind the scenes to rectify our current position, hours of tactics discussed, hours of footage analysed and recruitment of players ongoing, whilst current players are coached and to conjoled to improve.

Its an ongoing process that is yet to conclude, perhaps at some stage Hyppia will be sacked or walk out, I dont know, but I bet just as likely will be a turnaround where the work being done today will deliver success a little upstream, who knows, time will tell.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

Willing to have a small wager on it?

Absolutely not. I'm not THAT optimistic.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I'm convinced by what Sami wants to do in an attacking sense and in terms of creating chances, but not how exposed we are at the back. His system - even done right - still leaves us INCREDIBLY vulnerable to counter attacks. Too risky for me.

I agree, it is high risk. Very. But we're not conceding that many goals. We've only let in 3 more goals than the top 2. Many of them are a direct consequence of the system we're playing. But they're hurting us because we have been incredibly wasteful at the other end of the pitch.

 

[Brovion]

I don't buy that argument I'm afraid. If the players aren't putting in the effort, that's down to them.

Sami certainly hasn't been great, but he's young and learning. I think like Gus, he wants to play one way and you've got to admire his stubbornness in the face of such bad results. He believes his system works and that the players just need to adapt to it.

I think we're good enough. I think the players are learning a totally new system which could be utterly devastating to the opposition if we get it right. There have been glimmers of brilliance for 10-20 minute periods here and there where we've honestly looked better than I've seen us in a long time. We just needed our strikers to put the ball in the back of the net.

There have also been periods where heads have dropped, shoulders have been shrugged and the team have looked like they've given up when it's not working. That part has to change.

I think this season Sami will stay, we'll finish mid-table, then next season we will push on and finish top 4.

Good points. Sami has made, is making and will make mistakes - but that's what happens when you employ a rookie manager. They don't all get it right from Day One (although Poyet came very close. Ditto Mullery).

Gordon Strachan once said something very pertinent. His first job in management was at Coventry, and he said he was actually a far better manager when Coventry sacked him than when they employed him as he'd learnt so much on the job. Yes Hypia might well be a dud, but there's also a chance he's not, and it will be his next employers (or maybe the ones after that) who will benefit. I'm probably in a minority but I'm prepared to give him a bit longer rather than go for the 'dead cat bounce' of getting a new guy in (again). Save that until we're desperate!

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Adams Mk 2 we were in freefall SALDE saved us.
Salde we were not quite in freefall but a poor run and GUS saved us
Sami we are in freefall....?

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

He could also stop this squad rotation. Pick your best 11 then STICK to it.

And play an effing winger.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree, it is high risk. Very. But we're not conceding that many goals. We've only let in 3 more goals than the top 2. Many of them are a direct consequence of the system we're playing. But they're hurting us because we have been incredibly wasteful at the other end of the pitch.

Can Dunk and Greer really keep it up all season though? They're gonna be bloody shattered, I think they've been superb so far but are having to work their bollocks off.

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

Absolutely not. I'm not THAT optimistic.

Fair enough, and this is my point. This season we may well stay up, but will Hyypia really be the man to lead us into the top flight? No. That's the clubs ambition and with him at the helm we can never fulfill it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

That is about it, I dont fall into hysteria when we are winning or become morose and too critical when we lose a few, it is true I am no longer a demonstrative fan, I miss that.

However you neednt get upset if I do not take your views on the game seriously, its just that I suspect there is no reason to suspect you have any idea, certainly above our current manager.

I assume work is being done behind the scenes to rectify our current position, hours of tactics discussed, hours of footage analysed and recruitment of players ongoing, whilst current players are coached and to conjoled to improve.

Its an ongoing process that is yet to conclude, perhaps at some stage Hyppia will be sacked or walk out, I dont know, but I bet just as likely will be a turnaround where the work being done today will deliver success a little upstream, who knows, time will tell.

I struggle to manage an U9's 7-a-side team, although tactically I had them set up very well on Sunday!

I think you've walked into this thread that has generally been discussing things in a sensible way, and just made a simplified comment that it's all just people being too down when we lose, or too up when we win, like we've all got to learn or something. I think you need to give some people, not just me, a little more credit.

I will add that nothing would delight me more than to be completely wrong!

 

[Monsieur Le Plonk]

Quality, quality postage Mr Bold.

The goals we are conceding are the simplest we've conceded in 4 years or so. Not just mistakes, but being so far out of position in so many places across the park that teams are just passing it into our box and tapping it in. It's embarrassing.

Teams like Rotherham are realising they can push up high knowing our fullbacks don't have an out ball down the line. This system requires so much mental ability from the centre halves and central midfielders to cover the width, it makes the forwards and other midfielders reluctant to overlap or get beyond each other. It's a mess. It's complicated for this level and it's showing.

We've made more mistakes this season than we did all of last, and possibly all of the season before that too. It isn't because suddenly the players are making unexplained individual errors, it's because no matter how well we're playing going forward, we're exposed at the back.

The mistakes will keep happening with the way we're playing. Too much pressure on our defensive players.

...and why we have to get someone else in.

 

[Don Quixote]

I think it is down to both the players and the manager.