Who are the PC brigade?

[beorhthelm]

Simster, im not saying they should be the benchmark, just that they are treated as such (helped by the stupid idea of "league tables"). We should either provide the resources for state schools to have 15 pupils in a class, or just get on and deal with life, deal with the intrinsic differences between us and use them as virtues not handicaps.

 

[rool]

Public schools are not about higher standards, they are about ensuring your kids don't mix with anyone from council estates. Job done! They are the biggest block on any real equality of opportunity in Britain. They create an educational apartheid where the wealthy (and a tiny amount of not-so-wealthy people who scrimp and save to pay the fees) buy privilige and access to universities and old-school-tie networks so their children can, regardless of real merit, advance more quickly than the likes of our children attending state schools. Educational standards in state schools will NEVER improve as long as the British establishment can opt out of sending their little darlings there, because no one in power will really give a shit about these schools until their stake in them is personal.

I'll take a little issue with that as I was one of 'the tiny minority' who did scrimp to send my boys to a private school. Why?, because one was so quiet and timid that he was virtually forgotten and became lost in the numbers of a 35+ class and the other was above average intelligence and wasn't being stretched enough because of the same reason. Nothing to do with status or university placings. Anyway they're both doing very nicely in an Irish national school now where the average class size is 12.

 

[Hungry Joe]

and the other was above average intelligence and wasn't being stretched enough

Unfortunate choice of phrase when talking about public schools.

 

[beorhthelm]

LI, it does bother me that there are few women in parliment, but it bothers me more that rather then search for the reason and address it, the best solution is to give women a bias playing field. It does not address the problem. Why is that so hard? Successful women in business, law, etc arent interest in going into politics right now because they are seen as getting there by being female and not their abilities.

As for education, why perpetuate this idea of the "old school tie"? Why look for an excuse for the faillings in your life? For every old school tie in industry there's a working class hero, who simply got on with it. The only real "educational apartheid" are the Oxbridge/Redbrick Universities - which is a Good Thing (tm). I want my Politicians, CEOs, Judges, Jouranlists etc to have been educated at the best Universities. Thats the whole f***ing point of them.

 

[smudge]

God I'm pissed off with all this shit from people who love to preach. I think I'll wait until something happens in the world of Brighton football before I look in here again.

 

[Hungry Joe]

God I'm pissed off with all this shit from people who love to preach. I think I'll wait until something happens in the world of Brighton football before I look in here again.

Well I'm sure we're all devastated to hear that. It's a messageboard, exchange of views and all that.

 

[London Irish]

As for education, why perpetuate this idea of the "old school tie"? Why look for an excuse for the faillings in your life? For every old school tie in industry there's a working class hero

I perpetuate it because I see the old-school tie influence everywhere where I work in the City. The great unwashed working class comp-educated shouldn't have to be heroes to get on in life, they should just have the same breaks as everyone else.

By the way, I was happy to read Munster's post. I hope I will never lay a guilt trip on people who take steps to avoid sending their kids to a rubbish school - my target is much bigger than that, it's the hypocrites in charge. Glad to hear the Irish have it sorted but their system is not perfect, just much better than the yawning inequalities in this country.

 

[Tooting Gull]

Tooting Gull, I'm glad to see from your previous that I haven't hurt your feelings too much Anyway, on with the debate, remember it's "PC gone mad" that's the big threat to British society, although the mountainous levels of my patronising posts might be fast catching it up, who knows

The above quote of yours is a classic example of how people like you fall for the big "PC gone mad" lies spun by the likes of the Daily Mail and other rightwing rags.

There is no such law proposed to silence comedians - rightwing commentators are making that up.

What there is, is a debate about the abolition of the age-old Blasphemy Law, the one protecting Christianity that's been on the lawbooks for ages that, funnily enough, didn't stop the Life of Brian but was used by Mary Whitehouse 20 years ago to express her and the British judiciary's hatred of another vulnerable minority group in British society - she used it to censor the "gay" play The Romans in Britain from being staged at the National Theatre.

Now what the Daily Mail and the Murdoch rags is getting their knickers in the twist about is a seperate proposal to introduce a new law on religious incitement to violence.

The reason for this is the increasing sophistication of British neo-nazi groups refining their hate garbage to get round the existing laws on incitement to racial violence that have been on the statute books since the 1970s. Instead of threatening "blacks", and "pakis", the neo-Nazis have got a bit clever and are substituting words like Muslim in order to incite violence against ethnic minorities.

Let's not beat about the bush here. Neo-nazi terrorist attacks against vulnerable minority groups like British Asians have increased massively since 9/11. The neo-Nazis are taking advantage of the current moral panic over terrorism to step up their racist attacks.

Civilised people like you and I need to respond and a law on inciting religious violence is an appropriate weapon to use against the neo-Nazis. It will be modelled on the race hatred legislation of the 1970s that has served us so well in keeping the real hoodlum element of the far right in Britain constantly on the run.

Of course the Daily Mail and other rightwing loudmouths in the 1970s made the same complaints about the race relations legislation back then - that it would limit free speech. Bollocks then as is their self-serving "PC gone mad" bullshit now - the Race Relations Act of the 1970s has been a massive success in creating a more integrated Britain where minorities have some protection against the tooled-up fascists.

Any new legislation is all about smashing those same British neo-Nazi bastards, these people who are spirtual heirs of those who gave us the Auschwitz gas chambers and who will deny to this day that there was ever such a thing as Hitler's Final Solution.

So, here's the truth.

We don't live in a Britain where "PC is gone mad". We live in a Britain where some policy-makers are trying their hardest to protect vulnerable groups from racist attacks.

It's a shame we have disgusting rags like the Daily Mail and the Sun who will pervert the truth so much. But the responsibility is yours not to swallow their garbage.

Fair enough - a proper post (at last), one that recognises an alternative point of view and so deserves some consideration.

I know what the intended target of the new law on incitement of racial hatred law is - and the associated abolition of the blasphemy law. The question is, could it be used for purposes other than the intended one? Even black and Asian comedians have expressed fears on this. Possibly not natural Mail readers, if it is possible to generalise.

I think your view that half the country is running around trying to run every black and Asian out on the next ship is very dated. People have grown up a lot, and thankfully learned some tolerance. For the ignorant racist minority, there are laws on the statute book to deal with them already.

I am very against positive discrimination, preferring the best candidate, but I think the worst example of how PC culture is stifling a debate that is badly needed is over asylum. We are never going to get it right if every time someone dares to suggest a limit, they are accused of being racist.

 

[chip]

What really annoys me about tw*ts like LI is that they are always right. They must be because they rehearse their twisted arguements so much then even believe it themselves.

I fail to see how people not sending their children to state schools can be to blame for the problems in them. Everyone knows of a school that they don't want their children to go to and many move house to avoid it. This achieves the sink schools. How do people like LI try to solve that? Force the half decent schools to accept very disruptive pupils. While they are at it, lets mix in some special educational needs as well. Still, seeing as the national curriculum has very little to do with education and GCSEs and A levels have become attendance certificates I guess it doesn't matter.

Why don't we ban private dentists then? After all its only by people going private that LI's proletariat can't get their teeth seen on the NHS isn't it? I respectfuly suggest to LI that before he criticises the splinter in everyone elses eye he removes the plank from his own.

 

[Brixtaan]

LI, The only real "educational apartheid" are the Oxbridge/Redbrick Universities - which is a Good Thing (tm). I want my Politicians, CEOs, Judges, Jouranlists etc to have been educated at the best Universities. Thats the whole f***ing point of them.

Spot on.Despite mocking them from the safety of a Sec Comp education,i am in awe of the amazing facilities and variation of experiences that these places are able to provide for the rich kids.Who wouldn't want their children to have the best of all experiences?

A bit weak there LI.Strains of the class warrior coming through

 

[beorhthelm]

... The great unwashed working class comp-educated shouldn't have to be heroes to get on in life, they should just have the same breaks as everyone else.

please take the hat out of your arse. they *DO* have the same breaks, the only thing heroic is that they grasp them. While others dont, and whinge.

 

[chip]

And bringing this back to PC, PC got slated for stating the obvious, that we can't all achieve everything. Its this sort of illusionment that PC is all about. If you can't achieve, first blame someone else and then change the metric so it appears that you can.

 

[Hungry Joe]

And bringing this back to PC, PC got slated for stating the obvious, that we can't all achieve everything. Its this sort of illusionment that PC is all about. If you can't achieve, first blame someone else and then change the metric so it appears that you can.

I like that, I don't understand it, but I like it.

 

[Brixtaan]

Me too ha ha

 

[Hungry Joe]

What gets me about the term PC Brigade term is how it's misused, mainly by people with right-wing political leanings, to label pretty much anyone who takes offence at something they see as distasteful or bigoted. It's got to the point on here lately that you can't object to anything without being lumped in this group, even if it goes against everything else you've ever posted. I have had that happen on more than one occassion of late, and that after defending the likes of Boris Johnson and complaining about the Knee-jerk Moral Majority Nanny State that we've become in other posts. It's a cheap shot put down by people who can't be bothered or are unable to have a sensible discussion or argument. I have never stated my political tendecies on here and yet because I've objected to some of the things that have been said I've been labelled a Guardian reading leftie PC reactionary, which if you knew me you'd realise was hilarious.

 

[dougdeep]

Perhaps they put out fires in desktop computers.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Perhaps they put out fires in desktop computers.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

There is obviously differing views on this thread but it appears that while a realignment of allowable language was needed it is now time to stop. The English language is being bastardised to accommodate the righteous lobby or should it read leftous. Words such as blackboard have been removed from the vocabulary in state schools. This is pure insanity. In no way does it sound racist, is racist or anything else apart from meaning that the board is deliberately black and so white chalk can be seen when written on it. Left-wing councils have gone mad. Not allowing Christmas trees in public places in council offices in case it offends someone is shear idiotic. I’m bloody offended by these dumb twats. Its not right-wing papers inventing this stuff but they are bringing it to the attention of the readership. Why? Because is bloody wrong, that’s why.

Racism exists, we need to combat it, changing non-offensive words will not. Or stopping the flying of the union flag. Or celebrating Christmas. Or discriminating against whites for jobs (as happens in brent council).

Encouraging people from all backgrounds to unite is the way forward. Understanding each others cultures and in turn respecting them. This should not be a one way street. The Asian and afro-Caribbean amongst others, need to understand OUR culture and us there’s. fanatical beliefs in anything whether religion or otherwise are dangerous. History tells us this. Changing views is one thing but pampering so as not to offend in fact causes resentment.

There is though this short sightedness from the loony left wingers that they are the only ones championing the cause, whether it be racism, sexism, or any other ism. Well they are sodding wrong.

Women in parliament has been debated on this thread. Simple if women come forward for selection and they are the best candidate then they should stand, simple as that. Do not discriminate against men. That’s just as bad as in history when women did not have the vote. You do not lose discrimination by discrimination you only create resentment. Proactive involvement is what creates change. Lobbying fringe groups to become involved but not to discriminate.

The riches of some have been attacked (re-distributing wealth), public schools etc.
I for one would send all my five kids to private school if I could afford it but I can not. This is not for snobbery but because it is a better education. Respect is expected and deserved. In state education there is no respect. The teachers complain of over sized classes, too much work etc etc. I’m sure I’m right in saying that nothing has changed since I was at school in the workload and size of classes but what has changed is respect and good honest discipline (opens can of worms with canning debate). My kids get disciplined if they do not do their homework. I write to their teacher insisting they get detentions only to be told that the teacher doesn’t do detentions. WHY NOT?

Redistributing wealth is another issue which needs to be put right. Successful people by virtue of their wealth put money back into this country, employing people, and contributing to the nations’ well-being. Taking wealth from these people only succeeds in losing this money. If class is the issue, you only need to look at the upper class. Many of them live in large mansions handed down through the generations. In turn they have employed many of the locals, supported local life. Many now are just about skint, having to open their property to the public in the hope that enough money is raised to keep the place going and in turn keeping those employees employed.
All of this leads to my main point, yes I’m right-wing, yes I believe that the loony-left have made a mockery of local government. No I’m not a racist, not a bigotist, or a fascist My wife and I have brought our kids up to respect those around them irrelevant of race, colour, creed, religion, sex or wealth. If everyone was taught these simple morals then the place would be a better place to live. My kids are encouraged to read and understand other cultures and religions, be tolerant of them and above al else respect them.

I will not have left-wingers or any religious group dictating morals to me or telling me or insinuating that because I do not follow or agree with their views that I am some sort of leper of society.

 

[Hungry Joe]

Some fair points there, and some I'd take issue with, but you can't pin the whole of PC on the left wing of politics. Much of it sits more in the centre ground of Liberalism if anything. The Looney Left do exist but are so marginalised now as to be virtualy irrelevant, they have no influence at all. The more sinister movement is the more disguised centreist liberal democracy self righteousness displayed by the current Labour leadership, who incidentaly have nothing to do with Socialism anymore.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Some fair points there, and some I'd take issue with, but you can't pin the whole of PC on the left wing of politics. Much of it sits more in the centre ground of Liberalism if anything. The Looney Left do exist but are so marginalised now as to be virtualy irrelevant, they have no influence at all. The more sinister movement is the more disguised centreist liberal democracy self righteousness displayed by the current Labour leadership, who incidentaly have nothing to do with Socialism anymore.

i agree with the liberalism referance but in truth aren't they really the old labour lefties (ban the bomb type) all they need is the duffle coated m foot to take control. i believe it shows how politics has dramatically changed in the last decade or so. labour and the liberals have virtually changed round. that and "new" labour having a tory leader!